Workin' Overtime or Acquired Taste?
By Mr. Moderator on Jan 25, 2007
Think about it Rock Snobs: the sound of many cult artists you likely didn't hear until your late-teen years and later probably would have sounded foreign or just...wrong to your prepubescent ears. Surely, some of you will object to this characterization, claiming a hip older sibling who turned you onto Van Der Graaf Generator or even hipper parents who conceived you while cranking up Stockhausen's latest. Hey, maybe you had "visionary" ears, fully formed, from birth. Who am I to argue? And more power to you!
For the rest of us, there was some work involved. We could have played it safe with a string of good-enough Steve Miller Band albums, or for younger Townspeople - what - U2's forays into irrelevance? Instead, we pressed forward, past the cool, beyond the cutting edge, into the vaults, where an overweight, ill-groomed older guy with Coke bottle lenses made us magic mix tapes of sounds from the underground.
Follow up:
Some of the underground artists we discovered got us Workin' Overtime. That is, something about their music captured an essence of familiar sounds from our youth, but we had to work past the loose ends and lack of polish. For instance, a kid who finished high school in the late-'70s/early-'80s might come across The Move for the first time in college. (American kids, that is - nerdlingers - their records were not played on commercial FM radio at that time.) This kid might have already made the connection to ELO, and tunes like the original "Do Ya" and "California Man" would be a cause for wonder. However, any young rock nerd with ears was faced with the fact that the recordings of The Move sounded a little ragged, maybe not all there, a little off. Few of us talked about "mastering" as teens in the early '80s, but that standard-issue, double-album Move greatest hits collection (with the cartoon drawing of a moving van) sounded like it was mastered on the cardboard gatefold sleeve. It lacked the polish that Jeff Lynne would give to ELO's music, especially after goofball Roy Wood left for screwier pastures. After a matter of time and hard work (workin' overtime) the weird vibe of The Move would hint at a more fully realized sound. I stress hint because The Move was one sloppy, unfocused band that earned its perennial cult status.
On the other hand, there are Acquired Tastes. Often, the music of these bands is completely foreign to one's musical background, but over time one cracks the code and finds the necessary patterns and humanity that lead toward enjoyment.
At this point, I'm confident we're clear. So how do you characterize your initial experiences with some of the following artists in terms of Workin' Overtime or Acquired Taste?
- The Left Banke
- Pere Ubu
- Kate Bush
- Love, Forever Changes
- Wire
- Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes
- Randy Newman
- Pavement
- The Fall
- The Smiths
- Can
- Patti Smith
- Psychic TV
You get the idea, right? Feel free to discuss an artist of your own choosing. The key is to explain why you characterize your efforts at loving this artist and/or specific work the way you do.
I look forward to your responses!
24 comments
Comment from: the great 48 [Member] 
First Kate Bush experience: I was 12. FM/TV, the late-night video show on KBDI, which I watched religiously every night, regularly played the videos for "Wuthering Heights," "Wow" and "The Man With The Child In His Eyes." Immediate reaction: instant fan. Primary reason: I was 12. It was Kate Bush. Do the math.
01/26/07 @ 00:07
Comment from: the great 48 [Member]
There's a third strain that ties into these two, which is neither Workin' Overtime nor Acquired Taste, but "Oh...I See." This applies to artists whose merits you discover belatedly through the work of other, later bands that lifted large parts of their sound from this source, but having heard the imitators means that there's nothing particularly "difficult" about the progenitors. Example from my own life, circa 1995: "Oh, you're into Stereolab? Have you heard of this German band from the '70s called Neu!? Trust me, if you like Stereolab, you'll love them: Stereolab basically lifted the whole sound of their first couple albums directly from Neu!"
Occasionally, however, a band you DID catch the first time around just doesn't make sense until after you've heard their followers. My best example: Spacemen 3. I heard them on my local college radio station a few times in the late '80s, when "Walking With Jesus" and that 17-minute version of "Rollercoaster" were among the ultimate badges of hip, and I admit, I Just Did Not Get It. I mean, I already had my Velvet Underground records then, and as far as I could tell, all they were doing was setting the guitars from "Sister Ray" on top of the drums from "What Goes On." I still Don't Get one of the offshoot groups, Spiritualized, but during my Droney Phase (circa 1997-98) when I was picking up Sonic Boom's Spectrum and EAR records alongside those Darla bliss-out discs and the early Windy and Carl stuff, all of a sudden Spacemen 3 made much more sense to me.
Come to think of it, the fact that I hadn't smoked weed yet when I first heard Spacemen 3 probably explains my disinclination. Similarly, the fact that I'd already stopped smoking weed when I made that discovery of their charms probably explains why I still don't listen to them that much.
Occasionally, however, a band you DID catch the first time around just doesn't make sense until after you've heard their followers. My best example: Spacemen 3. I heard them on my local college radio station a few times in the late '80s, when "Walking With Jesus" and that 17-minute version of "Rollercoaster" were among the ultimate badges of hip, and I admit, I Just Did Not Get It. I mean, I already had my Velvet Underground records then, and as far as I could tell, all they were doing was setting the guitars from "Sister Ray" on top of the drums from "What Goes On." I still Don't Get one of the offshoot groups, Spiritualized, but during my Droney Phase (circa 1997-98) when I was picking up Sonic Boom's Spectrum and EAR records alongside those Darla bliss-out discs and the early Windy and Carl stuff, all of a sudden Spacemen 3 made much more sense to me.
Come to think of it, the fact that I hadn't smoked weed yet when I first heard Spacemen 3 probably explains my disinclination. Similarly, the fact that I'd already stopped smoking weed when I made that discovery of their charms probably explains why I still don't listen to them that much.
01/26/07 @ 01:24
Comment from: citizen mom [Member] · http://quinnchannel.typepad.com/tfh
I'm dating myself as a young'un, but I'd throw PJ Harvey in there. I guess the fact that I actually give thought to why my intitial reactions to her were all negative is the deciding factor.
So, Polly Jean: Workin' Overtime
So, Polly Jean: Workin' Overtime
01/26/07 @ 07:21
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
There's a third strain that ties into these two, which is neither Workin' Overtime nor Acquired Taste, but "Oh...I See."
Definitely a valid third category. I'll have to think about whether I've had any like this. I believe I've had the good fortune to devlop my tastes in a critically accurate chronological order.
Come to think of it, the fact that I hadn't smoked weed yet...
Ah, the weed factor re: "Oh...I See"! That did play a major role in me finally "getting" King Crimson and Black Sabbath.
01/26/07 @ 07:34
Comment from: andyr [Member]
Man, with the exception of Pere Ubu, which I I would put in the "workin ovetime" category, can I add a fourth category (Stewart suggested the third) - "No Thank You"
01/26/07 @ 07:35
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
andyr wrote:
That category is not open for discussion, Mr. Greatest Hits. Go listen to your Breakfast with the Beatles promo beds!
Man, with the exception of Pere Ubu, which I I would put in the "workin ovetime" category, can I add a fourth category (Stewart suggested the third) - "No Thank You"
That category is not open for discussion, Mr. Greatest Hits. Go listen to your Breakfast with the Beatles promo beds!
01/26/07 @ 07:38
Comment from: general slocum [Member]
I learned to appreciate a lot of music by way of the Zelig effect. If I am spending a certain amount of time with someone who has both enthusiasm for, and knowledge of a certain genre or field, I become at least somewhat enthused myself. Noise jazz, modern classical (Feldman, Nono, Wolff, et al), Romantic violin virtuosic music (!), hell, even mathematics, when my band mate was a grad student in math! I think you can find the soul in any genre if it's there at all, provided you have the right spiritual medium, so to speak. Probably this is a version of "Oh... I see." And this effect is proven all the more by the few times it hasn't worked. The moderator has opened my eyes to many artists, but I remain underwhelmed by the Undertones, for example.
01/26/07 @ 08:05
Comment from: Oats [Member]
I guess I had to work overtime a bit with the Smiths, to get accustomed to Morrissey's odd way with a melody.
In a weird way, I connected with Randy Newman almost immediately. I had known who he was since I was a kid, but in high school I heard him being interviewed by Ed Sciaky, and he was so funny and right-on and the songs were so good. By then, I had read enough rock history books to understand a little where he was coming from lyrically, and how different it was from the stuff he's famous for. I should have known there and then that Roger Waters was not long for my world.
In a weird way, I connected with Randy Newman almost immediately. I had known who he was since I was a kid, but in high school I heard him being interviewed by Ed Sciaky, and he was so funny and right-on and the songs were so good. By then, I had read enough rock history books to understand a little where he was coming from lyrically, and how different it was from the stuff he's famous for. I should have known there and then that Roger Waters was not long for my world.
01/26/07 @ 09:11
Comment from: sammymaudlin [Member]
Beefheart. Safe as Milk is cool as hell. Everything else is hell on my ears. I tried man... I really tried. Although I'd put the Cap'n in a category called "Respectfully Decline." This category, which I'd also put Kate Bush into, is for music that I can understand why music appreciators enjoy but just don't myself.
01/26/07 @ 09:29
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
So here's where I stand on some of the examples I gave:
The Left Banke: Workin' OT, regrettably. When I've milked all that I can out of my Zombies records I'll try again to get what good ideas I can out of all but their two letter-perfect singles.
Pere Ubu: Workin' OT, but happily. The first time I heard this band they sounded familiar in terms of both musically (eg, their garage roots) and psychologically (eg, the frantic, humorous, paranoid vibe they cooked up).
Kate Bush: Acquired Taste. When I first saw her sing on SNL while lying across a piano in a lion suit as well as in leotards with fuzzy leggings, I was horrified like few times I can remember feeling horrified. A few years later, I'd get really high and fall in love with The Dreaming as well as cheesecake shots of her in magazines. You could say I crossed the line. Soon thereafter, I'd find her later albums as boring as the earlier ones.
Love, Forever Changes: Neither. As some of you know, this album neither stirs unfulfilled passions for the Herb Alpert and Sergio Mendes albums my Dad used to play around the house when I was 5 nor does it strike me as a taste I'm capable of acquiring.
Wire: The second album is very slowly becoming an Acquired Taste. The first one still sounds like a punk rock aerobics mix tape to me. I've always like the third one, thanks in part to my old friend, Hojas. Anything thereafter sounds more like aerobics music.
Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes: Seriously Workin' OT! I still have a soft spot for this album, in large part because it bravely falls so far from its target.
Randy Newman: Heavily Acquired Taste. Thank goodness for Pixar soundtracks to allow me to give this guy a second chance.
Pavement: Acquired Taste leading to OT Work. I always got the slight VU tie-in, but mostly they sounded like a bunch of undisciplined snots. After falling in love with Malkmus' Face the Truth album, I've been able to go back and to the extra work to like the band's music.
The Fall: Neither. For me, liking this band is the equivalent of quitting my job and living on the streets.
The Smiths: Neither to date, although last time I tried to approach this band, I realized that I actually like some of Morrissey's solo albums a lot better than The Smiths.
Can: Acquired Taste. Still needs work before I even dig them as much as I do, say, truffles.
Patti Smith: Both. By first hitting me with "Gloria" she went straight for the familiar and well-loved, although she's so much herself - her special vibe - that I'm constantly confronted with both its strangeness and its limitations. Wish she simply had Television backing her up. I think her "classic"-era band is thoroughly mediocre.
Psychic TV: Fairly easy to like on a limited basis after already liking Throbbing Gristle. Sticking with them, however, requires major OT that I choose not to put in.
The Left Banke: Workin' OT, regrettably. When I've milked all that I can out of my Zombies records I'll try again to get what good ideas I can out of all but their two letter-perfect singles.
Pere Ubu: Workin' OT, but happily. The first time I heard this band they sounded familiar in terms of both musically (eg, their garage roots) and psychologically (eg, the frantic, humorous, paranoid vibe they cooked up).
Kate Bush: Acquired Taste. When I first saw her sing on SNL while lying across a piano in a lion suit as well as in leotards with fuzzy leggings, I was horrified like few times I can remember feeling horrified. A few years later, I'd get really high and fall in love with The Dreaming as well as cheesecake shots of her in magazines. You could say I crossed the line. Soon thereafter, I'd find her later albums as boring as the earlier ones.
Love, Forever Changes: Neither. As some of you know, this album neither stirs unfulfilled passions for the Herb Alpert and Sergio Mendes albums my Dad used to play around the house when I was 5 nor does it strike me as a taste I'm capable of acquiring.
Wire: The second album is very slowly becoming an Acquired Taste. The first one still sounds like a punk rock aerobics mix tape to me. I've always like the third one, thanks in part to my old friend, Hojas. Anything thereafter sounds more like aerobics music.
Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes: Seriously Workin' OT! I still have a soft spot for this album, in large part because it bravely falls so far from its target.
Randy Newman: Heavily Acquired Taste. Thank goodness for Pixar soundtracks to allow me to give this guy a second chance.
Pavement: Acquired Taste leading to OT Work. I always got the slight VU tie-in, but mostly they sounded like a bunch of undisciplined snots. After falling in love with Malkmus' Face the Truth album, I've been able to go back and to the extra work to like the band's music.
The Fall: Neither. For me, liking this band is the equivalent of quitting my job and living on the streets.
The Smiths: Neither to date, although last time I tried to approach this band, I realized that I actually like some of Morrissey's solo albums a lot better than The Smiths.
Can: Acquired Taste. Still needs work before I even dig them as much as I do, say, truffles.
Patti Smith: Both. By first hitting me with "Gloria" she went straight for the familiar and well-loved, although she's so much herself - her special vibe - that I'm constantly confronted with both its strangeness and its limitations. Wish she simply had Television backing her up. I think her "classic"-era band is thoroughly mediocre.
Psychic TV: Fairly easy to like on a limited basis after already liking Throbbing Gristle. Sticking with them, however, requires major OT that I choose not to put in.
01/26/07 @ 09:40
Comment from: the great 48 [Member]
The Left Banke: Workin' OT, regrettably. When I've milked all that I can out of my Zombies records I'll try again to get what good ideas I can out of all but their two letter-perfect singles.
Don't bother. There's nothing there. Those folks who are always nattering on about what a neglected pop genius on the level of Brian Wilson Michael Brown is have never been able to explain why, if that's true, the only two good songs he ever wrote were "Walk Away Renee" and "She May Call You Up Tonight."
01/26/07 @ 10:29
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
The Great 48 wrote:
They're the 2 songs I had in mind, the only ones I can ever keep in my head. Glad to know you agree with me on this band. Sometimes we're in alignment with bands from this era, sometimes not.
I wish we had more people registered who were ready to defend this band. I know you're out their browsing. Register and explain why Michael Brown is a genius (beside the fact that he's holed up in his mother's basement)!
Don't bother. There's nothing there. Those folks who are always nattering on about what a neglected pop genius on the level of Brian Wilson Michael Brown is have never been able to explain why, if that's true, the only two good songs he ever wrote were "Walk Away Renee" and "She May Call You Up Tonight."
They're the 2 songs I had in mind, the only ones I can ever keep in my head. Glad to know you agree with me on this band. Sometimes we're in alignment with bands from this era, sometimes not.
I wish we had more people registered who were ready to defend this band. I know you're out their browsing. Register and explain why Michael Brown is a genius (beside the fact that he's holed up in his mother's basement)!
01/26/07 @ 10:34
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
I'm old enough to have liked some of these artists from the very beginning (Pere Ubu, Wire, the Shoes, Randy Newman, The Smiths, Patti Smith) and pretty much wholeheartedly. Love and the Left Banke, I knew the hits when they were current, but I Acquired a wider Taste for their music much later through CD reissues. I didn't have to work very hard, because this is a style I like.
I missed Can on the first go round, like most Americans, but a couple of reissues (Tago Mago and Ege Bamyasi) have left me unmoved, despite liking the music they influenced. I'm disinclined to continue spending money on overtime when it's not getting through. I am constitutionally incapable of Acquiring a Taste for Kate Bush.
I had to Work Overtime to get The Fall and Pavement. I tried to like both when they first appeared, but gave up and put them in the Don't Get It dept. The Fall best of (50,000 etc) convinced me that I had missed something valuable ... same with the Slanted reissue, though I'll never be either's fanboy.
Throbbing Gristle/Psychic TV -- for some reason (the names?) I've completely ignored them, and so I assume it's too late at this point.
I missed Can on the first go round, like most Americans, but a couple of reissues (Tago Mago and Ege Bamyasi) have left me unmoved, despite liking the music they influenced. I'm disinclined to continue spending money on overtime when it's not getting through. I am constitutionally incapable of Acquiring a Taste for Kate Bush.
I had to Work Overtime to get The Fall and Pavement. I tried to like both when they first appeared, but gave up and put them in the Don't Get It dept. The Fall best of (50,000 etc) convinced me that I had missed something valuable ... same with the Slanted reissue, though I'll never be either's fanboy.
Throbbing Gristle/Psychic TV -- for some reason (the names?) I've completely ignored them, and so I assume it's too late at this point.
01/26/07 @ 10:41
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
Goddammit! I posted a lengthy screed about what idiots Mr. Mod and Lower 48 were for not seeing how great the Left Banke were, and it vanished. Let me just sum up: I recognize I have a bigger boner than many for arty/fey proto-art rock from the 60s ("Barefoot Gentleman," anyone?), but I can't understand how even the most hairy-backed rockist couldn't see how wonderful songs like "Shadows Breaking Over My Head," "Dark Is the Bark" and "Men Are Building Sand" are. And I'm *especially* baffled by Mr. Mod not grokking to the mighty wallop delivered by such concise pop wonderments as "She May Call You Up Tonight," "I haven't Got the Nreve," "I've Got Something On My Mind," "Desiree" and others. Like the man famously said: sheesh!
01/26/07 @ 11:42
Comment from: markwallace1322 [Visitor]
Pere Ubu I didn't understand the first time I heard them, but I wanted to understand, so I played the record again and again until I did. Psychic TV came after Pere Ubu for me, and thus presented not much problem.
I took to Love, Wire, and Patti Smith without any difficulty, at various times.
The Fall I never liked until I heard their more straightforward A Sides record, and some of the 90s records as well. On the whole I've never become a fan of the noise rock elements of The Fall.
I took to Love, Wire, and Patti Smith without any difficulty, at various times.
The Fall I never liked until I heard their more straightforward A Sides record, and some of the 90s records as well. On the whole I've never become a fan of the noise rock elements of The Fall.
01/26/07 @ 11:48
Comment from: scottrodgers [Member]
The Left Banke: A couple of really good songs; the rest is generally pleasant
Pere Ubu: Like the first two albums, haven't delved any further
Kate Bush: Not gonna happen, ever
Love, Forever Changes: A grower. I hated it on first listen, thought it was OK the second time, then it clicked after that
Wire: Eh. Just not all that interesting.
Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes: Never heard it, but if it's "power pop", I'll probably hate it
Randy Newman: OK, but I've never heard anything by him that was really exciting
Pavement: I like the sound of the band, but Malkmus' smug, irritating vocals and lyrics will ensure that I'll never listen to them
The Fall: Some really cool songs, but the lack of melody wears on me after a while
The Smiths: Pleasant, but overrated
Can: I'd like them if they had a decent singer
Patti Smith: No thanks
Psychic TV: Never heard 'em
Pere Ubu: Like the first two albums, haven't delved any further
Kate Bush: Not gonna happen, ever
Love, Forever Changes: A grower. I hated it on first listen, thought it was OK the second time, then it clicked after that
Wire: Eh. Just not all that interesting.
Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes: Never heard it, but if it's "power pop", I'll probably hate it
Randy Newman: OK, but I've never heard anything by him that was really exciting
Pavement: I like the sound of the band, but Malkmus' smug, irritating vocals and lyrics will ensure that I'll never listen to them
The Fall: Some really cool songs, but the lack of melody wears on me after a while
The Smiths: Pleasant, but overrated
Can: I'd like them if they had a decent singer
Patti Smith: No thanks
Psychic TV: Never heard 'em
01/26/07 @ 15:07
Comment from: the great 48 [Member]
I am constitutionally incapable of Acquiring a Taste for Kate Bush.
I'm not sure that this is what he was implying, but regardless, BigSteve raises a good point: has there ever been a more unlikely artist than Kate Bush to achieve significant mainstream commercial success* based in large part on the fact that every straight teenage boy in the country wanted to tap that? In the late '70s and '80s, Kate Bush was a UK pin-up on the same level as Debbie Harry and Madonna.
*in the UK, that is, where she was massive from the time "Wuthering Heights" was first released: 25 Top 40 singles and all nine of her albums have hit the Top 10, according to Wikipedia
01/26/07 @ 15:17
Comment from: dr. john [Member]
I rarely get an artist that has lasting value right away. Sometimes it's a case of gradual exposure: a friend of mine previewed Late for the Sky for me before I finally bought it. Other times it's a case of listening to a record over and over again until I can finally figure out what's going on in the songs: that's how I got into 12 Songs and Sail Away.
01/26/07 @ 16:08
Scott wrote:
"Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes: Never heard it, but if it's "power pop", I'll probably hate it"
It's interesting that you say that given that you played on the last Trolleyvox record. With that said, I've never heard that record.
Oh and as for the other stuff mentioned:
The Left Banke- I like them but I haven't listened enough to the comp that I have to really make a strong determination one way or the other; their best song is definitely "She May Call You Up Tonight" in any event
Pere Ubu- I like what I've heard a lot, which is the early singles comp and the first 2 albums; I'm not nearly as familiar with the later stuff though I don't think I'd enjoy it as much
Kate Bush- I like her, but probably not enough to get all of her records or anything like that; I'm pretty satisfied with The Hounds of Love and her hits comp The Whole Story
Love, Forever Changes - genius, though definitely a grower like Scott said
Wire - I'm a big fan of the first 3 albums, not really all that familiar with the '80s albums and like but don't love their more recent stuff (great sound but the material isn't as strong as it could be)
Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes- never heard it
Randy Newman- I really like Sail Away a lot and I keep meaning to get more of his albums
Pavement-This is a tough one for me; I never really got them because of the whole slacker/sloppiness thing but I heard their cover of Echo and the Bunnymen's "The Killing Moon" recently and really enjoyed it; I also thought Malkmus was surprisingly good when I was him play live a few years back; thus I need to give this band a serious chance at some point
The Fall - a catalog to rival anyone's in popular music and remarkably consistent to boot; obviously they're a huge favorite of mine
The Smiths - the best band ever; end of discussion
Can- again I like what I've heard but haven't really explored their catalog too deeply; I have one of those Cannibalism comps which is part great and part so-so
Patti Smith- 1st 4 albums = genius; after that, not so much, but still great live
Psychic TV-never listened to them or Throbbing Gristle at all, though I will one of these days
"Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes: Never heard it, but if it's "power pop", I'll probably hate it"
It's interesting that you say that given that you played on the last Trolleyvox record. With that said, I've never heard that record.
Oh and as for the other stuff mentioned:
The Left Banke- I like them but I haven't listened enough to the comp that I have to really make a strong determination one way or the other; their best song is definitely "She May Call You Up Tonight" in any event
Pere Ubu- I like what I've heard a lot, which is the early singles comp and the first 2 albums; I'm not nearly as familiar with the later stuff though I don't think I'd enjoy it as much
Kate Bush- I like her, but probably not enough to get all of her records or anything like that; I'm pretty satisfied with The Hounds of Love and her hits comp The Whole Story
Love, Forever Changes - genius, though definitely a grower like Scott said
Wire - I'm a big fan of the first 3 albums, not really all that familiar with the '80s albums and like but don't love their more recent stuff (great sound but the material isn't as strong as it could be)
Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes- never heard it
Randy Newman- I really like Sail Away a lot and I keep meaning to get more of his albums
Pavement-This is a tough one for me; I never really got them because of the whole slacker/sloppiness thing but I heard their cover of Echo and the Bunnymen's "The Killing Moon" recently and really enjoyed it; I also thought Malkmus was surprisingly good when I was him play live a few years back; thus I need to give this band a serious chance at some point
The Fall - a catalog to rival anyone's in popular music and remarkably consistent to boot; obviously they're a huge favorite of mine
The Smiths - the best band ever; end of discussion
Can- again I like what I've heard but haven't really explored their catalog too deeply; I have one of those Cannibalism comps which is part great and part so-so
Patti Smith- 1st 4 albums = genius; after that, not so much, but still great live
Psychic TV-never listened to them or Throbbing Gristle at all, though I will one of these days
01/26/07 @ 16:14
Comment from: geo [Member]
I had to work overtime to hook into Pere Ubu. When they hit, I was very focused on the sub-Beefheart quality and didn't really grok on the garage element. Also, I was somewhat put off by the general fuzzinessof their sound. I saw them around the time The Modern Dance came out and that was my general impression was lukewarm. Much later, when the Terminal Tower collection came out, Final Solution clued me to the garage element. Suddenly the thudding elegance made sense to me; it no longer sounded like an attempt to be weird, but rather as genuinely novel approach.
01/26/07 @ 17:30
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Matt wrote:
Scott was only doing it for the coke.
It's funny neither of you have heard Black Vinyl Shoes, and it's sad that it has to get lumped in with the geekiest of power pop. It is power pop - don't get me wrong - but it's so much less, and that's what makes it a cool record. You may or may not know the story, but it was recorded on a 4-track in the living room of 2 brothers in the band, I believe. It was released independently before many people had such crazy notions. If you're a musician here who's old enough to remember your first 4-track cassette demos, think that and then multiply the phase and hiss and everythign else that results from poorly recorded multi-tracking on subpar equipment. The end result sounds like The Raspberries recorded by post-apocalyptic cavemen.
Thereafter, Shoes made "proper" sounding power pop records that were pretty boring.
Has Aaron made the transition yet? I'd bet he knows a lot about the first Shoes records and other outsider power pop records from this era.
Scott wrote:
"Shoes, Black Vinyl Shoes: Never heard it, but if it's "power pop", I'll probably hate it"
It's interesting that you say that given that you played on the last Trolleyvox record. With that said, I've never heard that record.
Scott was only doing it for the coke.
It's funny neither of you have heard Black Vinyl Shoes, and it's sad that it has to get lumped in with the geekiest of power pop. It is power pop - don't get me wrong - but it's so much less, and that's what makes it a cool record. You may or may not know the story, but it was recorded on a 4-track in the living room of 2 brothers in the band, I believe. It was released independently before many people had such crazy notions. If you're a musician here who's old enough to remember your first 4-track cassette demos, think that and then multiply the phase and hiss and everythign else that results from poorly recorded multi-tracking on subpar equipment. The end result sounds like The Raspberries recorded by post-apocalyptic cavemen.
Thereafter, Shoes made "proper" sounding power pop records that were pretty boring.
Has Aaron made the transition yet? I'd bet he knows a lot about the first Shoes records and other outsider power pop records from this era.
01/26/07 @ 22:33
Comment from: the great 48 [Member]
It's funny neither of you have heard Black Vinyl Shoes, and it's sad that it has to get lumped in with the geekiest of power pop. It is power pop - don't get me wrong - but it's so much less, and that's what makes it a cool record. You may or may not know the story, but it was recorded on a 4-track in the living room of 2 brothers in the band, I believe. It was released independently before many people had such crazy notions.
BACKSTORY! BACKSTORY! NERD ALERT!
01/27/07 @ 00:00
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
BACKSTORY! BACKSTORY! NERD ALERT!
Damn, caught red-handed! I should have put this in parentheses while I was at it:)
01/27/07 @ 06:35
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
It's not so much that you should like it because it was recorded in the living room, but that it sounds like it, and that home-made vibe is in the grooves. The smallness is in the songs, and there's no audible ambition to be ready for arenas. It's a matter of means matching the ends, and the preservation of a kind of innocence that is essential to the mini-girl/boy-dramas played out in the songs.
Later they made slick, tight records with Richard Dashut, and they're enjoyable enough, but the songs were still wet behind the ears, and it's almost impossible to fake innocence. This is one of the dilemmas of power pop -- too much power overwhelms the slightness of the subject matter, which is usually some dewey-eyed romantic trifle, but too little results in an insipid blob of sentiment.
By being made in isolation Black Vinyl Shoes somehow got the balance right, soggy drums sounds and all.
Later they made slick, tight records with Richard Dashut, and they're enjoyable enough, but the songs were still wet behind the ears, and it's almost impossible to fake innocence. This is one of the dilemmas of power pop -- too much power overwhelms the slightness of the subject matter, which is usually some dewey-eyed romantic trifle, but too little results in an insipid blob of sentiment.
By being made in isolation Black Vinyl Shoes somehow got the balance right, soggy drums sounds and all.
01/27/07 @ 10:36
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