Please Explain: Bon Scott's Value to AC/DC
By Mr. Moderator on Feb 13, 2007
Before I begin, let's get a couple of things straight:
- It can be safely assumed you are a passionate and articulate fan of rock 'n roll if you're here in the Hall.
- It can be safely assumed that you are aware of the gulf between The Rolling Stones' "Honky Tonk Woman" and any song by AC/DC.
- Any possible comparisons between Bon Scott and Brian Johnston will not be considered relevant to the discussion.
OK. So I've been listening to AC/DC's High Voltage over the past week. My friend Seth bought me a couple of AC/DC albums last year as both fine birthday gifts and educational opportunities. He wanted me to hear their albums' productions and see if there was anything I could learn and better understand when he discussed the sound of our own band's productions. Since receiving these educational gifts, I listen to these albums every few months. I see what he means about the awesome dry production of the drums and guitars, in particular. It's the kind of production lovers of dry recording get wet over. Listen to the intro of the opening track, "It's a Long Way to the Top (If you Wanna Rock 'n' Roll)", if you want to know what floats my boat in terms of dry production. If possible, hit PAUSE at the 29-second mark, right before the vocals enter.
Follow up:
That's some fine rock 'n roll opening, isn't it? I think it's on par with the opening to "Honky Tonk Woman". I especially love the restraint Malcolm Young shows in laying out for the opening measures. Throughout this album he displays a mastery of not playing! When he actually does hit a power chord, it sounds much more powerful than it would have had he hit it right from the start of a section. Kids and old, nobody musicians alike, take note!
Now, resume playing the track, with Bon Scott's entrance to the song.
When this one's finished, you might also want to check out the album's second track, "Rock 'n' Roll Singer". Scott does state his purpose in this song, so maybe it will be helpful in answering my questions.
Before I ask you these few questions, let's get one more thing clear:
- It should not be expected that AC/DC is in any way an intellectually driven band.
So here's what I'd like to know from you, the listener:
- What value does Bon Scott bring to the music of AC/DC, to you, the listener?
- Assuming that Bon Scott's role as reflected in songwriting credits includes the writing of lyrics, are the lyrics part of his value-added package?
- Where do you, the listener, place the intellectual side of yourself when listening to Bon Scott's work with AC/DC?
- Is Bon Scott a good singer? Does his voice have pleasing qualities to you, the listener, or are you and other AC/DC fans simply getting off on his over-the-top, in-your-face delivery?
- Could the music of AC/DC have been better had they had a singer capable of singing in a less-overt style and providing slightly more interesting lyrics?
I look forward to your comments.
34 comments
2) I appreciate the humor.
3) At the bottom of a bottle. Will I then throw that bottle? Maybe.
4) No, he's a nasty, annoying, wretched singer, thankfully, for this nasty, annoying, wretched music that really rocks.
5) I don't think so. His over-the-topness seems to me absolutely integral to the band.
What value does Bon Scott bring to the music of AC/DC, to you, the listener?
Mark's right on target here. He's *real*, in a way that few front men are. Since AC/DC are real in a way not many bands are, they made a good match. I really think it's no small coincidence that the band's relevance as agent provocateurs vanished with Bon's departure. If you watch the early stuff on the excellent (Disc one, anyway) "Family Jewels" DVD set, you can *really* see what Bon brought to the band.
There's another mediocre R&R singer I happen to love: Ronnie Van Zant. He brought a "watch your step, son, or I'll stomp a mudhole in your ass" vibe to that band, and they needed it, to hoist them out of virtuosic noodle-ry. Bon brought the ass-whup to the table, but leavened it with a sly-dog, leering, roguish charm. I've read a couple of books about the guy, and I think the fact that Bon was a serious p*ssy magnet says a lot about what made him great.
Assuming that Bon Scott's role as reflected in songwriting credits includes the writing of lyrics, are the lyrics part of his value-added package?
See leering, roguish comment above.
Where do you, the listener, place the intellectual side of yourself when listening to Bon Scott's work with AC/DC?
I see AC/DC as therapy for my Rock mind.
Is Bon Scott a good singer? Does his voice have pleasing qualities to you, the listener, or are you and other AC/DC fans simply getting off on his over-the-top, in-your-face delivery?
Is he a "good singer"? For his band's requirements, hell yeah! When I credit most anybody with "keepin' it real," I'm usually joking. Not so with Bonnie. That unique howl of his is part of the reason why. A "beautiful" voice just wouldn't work with that band -- I know you see that as clearly as I do.
Could the music of AC/DC have been better had they had a singer capable of singing in a less-overt style and providing slightly more interesting lyrics?
No. What a dumb question! >:0@
Incidentally, I have long dreamed about getting the Head in a studio and getting the Vanda/Young AC/DC sound out of you. If you're serious about undertaking this experiment, I should have a brand-new, kick-ass studio facility in the late spring to do it in (yes, I mean a "real" studio facility -- not just an extension of the home studio I've been working out of to date). I'm serious. I'll do it for free -- but you have to hand over the keys to let me get that sound down. Just one or two songs is all I ask. I'm serious.
Final pince-nez point: Bon is lying about not knowing how to play the 'pipes in that clip. He was a fairly accomplished bagpipe player as a child in his native Scotland.
I really think it's no small coincidence that the band's relevance as agent provocateurs vanished with Bon's departure.
Watch it, this gets awfully close to bringing in a comparison to Brian Johnston. We agreed to table that part of the discussion.
I've read a couple of books about the guy, and I think the fact that Bon was a serious p*ssy magnet says a lot about what made him great.
So was Brian Jones. It didn't serve him in the lead singer role.
See leering, roguish comment above.
Doesn't the adjective "roguish" work a lot better when it's modifying "charm"? Does Scott bring charm to the equation? I get teh fun, naughty bits, but I don't hear him upping the ante the way - and I hate to bring this guy into the discussion - David Lee Roth used to do for VH. To say more on this subject right now might require me to break our gentleman's agreement re: Brian Johnston, so I'll stop here.
Is he a "good singer"? For his band's requirements, hell yeah! When I credit most anybody with "keepin' it real," I'm usually joking. Not so with Bonnie. That unique howl of his is part of the reason why. A "beautiful" voice just wouldn't work with that band -- I know you see that as clearly as I do.
You may be onto something here. His Everyman realness is unique. Nevertheless, I'm not convinced that it doesn't immediately bring down the opening 29 seconds of "It's a Long Way to the Top..." As I mentioned last week, I honestly believe AC/DC would have been MUCH better with Steve Marriott belting out slightly less juvenile crap. Marriott could sing of lust as if he'd performed his lustful acts in a bed and not just the backseat of a car or in a closet.
When the time is right, the Head may take you up on your offer. Seth will be ready to lay tracks as soon as you plug everything in. Thanks!
Who was more charming, Bon Scott or David Lee Roth?
I look forward to your responses.
Who was more charming, Bon Scott or David Lee Roth?
Townswomen, at the risk of sounding like your father, you don't have to answer this question!
I mean, explaining why Bon Scott kicked major ass is kind of like explaining why the sight of a peanut-studded turd in a urinal makes us laugh. Well, us guys, anyway. He just did, and it just does!
BTW, TOWNSWOMEN: you *do* have to answer the Bon Scott/DLR question. I don't know why Mr. Mod is giving you an out here -- I suspect it's because he won't like what he hears. Tell you what: let's *really* ruin Jim's day -- add Steve Marriott to the mix. How charming was *he*? What exactly are your feelings on titanium-throated garden gnomes?
I look forward to your responses.
Tell you what: let's *really* ruin Jim's day -- add Steve Marriott to the mix. How charming was *he*? What exactly are your feelings on titanium-throated garden gnomes?
Will will be sorry that you've broadened what started out as a Hobson's Choice. The ladies love titatnium-throated garden gnomes (LLTTGG)!
As I mentioned last week, I honestly believe AC/DC would have been MUCH better with Steve Marriott belting out slightly less juvenile crap. Marriott could sing of lust as if he'd performed his lustful acts in a bed and not just the backseat of a car or in a closet.
I believe you're serious, but I can't believe you're serious. Almost all of Marriot's "hard-rocking" vocals seem unintentionally parodic to me, the worst sort of blooze yelping. Scott brings genuine menace as well as parody, and that makes all the difference.
If all goes well, this will not be the end of this thread. I sense a lot of helpful perspectives have yet to be expressed, and I'm almost sure that at least 2 or 3 Townspeople could shed additional light on my point of view. Keep 'em coming!
Dr. John
Hank Williams and Bon Scott faced the consequences of their "live fast" lifestyle like MEN, not with the sort of "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" ironic pose that too often accompanies espousals of The Power and Glory of Rock 'n Roll.
I don't know, to me Hank was nothing if not adult. Many of his most famous songs are not about new love, but about marital strife. Even though he wasn't very old chronologically when he died (29), he seems never to have been young.
When I think of ACDC I think of arrested adolescence. Is this because my scant familiarity with their work is mainly version 2 of the band? Did Bon Scott get old before he died without my noticing?
Also we were talking about arrested adolescence the other day in another thread, in that case the Brian Wilson pupppy love syndrome. I know I'm mixing threads here, but maybe that's the kind of love song I don't hear anymore. And why is one kind of arrested development preferable to another? I'll take sweetness over bluster anyday, but that may be just wishful thinking. In general I would say I prefer experience over innocence (though in Blakean terms these are not stages of development), but I would not want to mistake drunken loutishness for maturity either.
Remember folks, my questions regarding the value of Bon Scott were founded on musical issues. I have found nothing to contradict my belief that his lyrics sucked, and I'm still not convinced he was anything but a "comitted" singer. I asked if he was good. Someone around here must have a sense of pitch. He doesn't sound to me like he's on pitch that often, and as someone who does have a good sense of rhythm, I feel confident in stating that his vocals aren't very rhythmic. His phrasing is awkward and lacking in swing.
Let's stick to the main questions, and I commend all of you for staying away from bringing that other guy into the discussion. Nice work despite my constant prodding!
He doesn't sound to me like he's on pitch that often, and as someone who does have a good sense of rhythm, I feel confident in stating that his vocals aren't very rhythmic.
Who are you -- Randy Freaking Jackson? I'm giving you another friendly warning that you've been wearing that lab coat for too long. If you don't change into something a bit less constricting soon, we're going to have to take it off you by force. It's clearly cutting off the blood supply to your brain.
You've got a guy in a schoolboy outfit looking kinda effete on stage, yet playing very manly guitar, so it becomes natural to have a stereotypically macho dude growling with the force of a frightened kitten in front of that to balance the adolescent false imagery therefore confusing and compelling the audience at the same time.
I guess I'd classify Bon Scott as a guy who technically doesn't fit the requirements of "rock expertise" But, then again, neither does Neil Young's guitar playing, which I also dig.
Who are you -- Randy Freaking Jackson?
Answer the question!
Seriously, are you ready? 'Cause this is going to BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!!!!
My answer to your questions is...
No, seriously, are you sure you want to know? I mean, *really sure*? 'Cause I'll spill the beans, you know. I'll *tell* you whether I think Bon Scott could carry a tune. And I'll *tell* you whether I thought he could carry a tune. I swear I will. Oh, yeah, I'll tell you. *Then* you'll see.
Don't think I won't tell you!!!!
Okay, seriously, now... can you handle the 500 megaton blast of Rock Insight that I'm about to drop on the epicenter of your mind? I'm not sure you can. I'm not sure you're *ready* for it, mannnn. Seriously. I mean, do *you* think you can handle it?
Come on, man. Seriously, do you think you can handle it? I'M ASKING YOU A FREAKING QUESTION. CAN YOU HANDLE IT???
'Cause I've got the answers you're looking for, Jim. I've got 'em right here. Oh, yeah. I'll *tell* you about Bon's sense of rhythm. And I'll *tell* you about whether or not he could carry a tune. Don't think I won't! 'Cause I will! Just see if I don't!
So... are you ready?
There, I said it.
Keep stalling, hrrundivbakshi.
I say:
Oh, sorry. I thought I'd answered your questions. The answer to both questions is of course "yes."
Also, if anyone offers to make the Head sound even remotely related to ACDC in terms of dryness and punch and power and CLARITY and directness, than I'll be there no matter what my wife says!
I say:
Seth, believe it or not, I've been on a quest for *years* to reverse engineer that amazing early Vanda/Young AC/DC sound. You won't hear it on any of my, uh, "solo" stuff, 'cause it just didn't seem to fit. But I've got the critical theory *down* on the guitars. No fooling. As far as the drums go... well, that's a code pattern I'm still deciphering. I almost bought some Sonor drums a while back, just 'cause I love that Phil Rudd sound so much! (By the way, I really think Phil is the secret agent man in that band. Think about it!)
So, yes, I'm very serious about the Nixon's Head "V-Y" project. But you'll have to convince The Invisible Hand to sit one out to make it happen!
But I've got the critical theory *down* on the guitars
I smell a lab coat.
Hey, Mr. Mod -- seriously, you may want to check these out for more depth on Bon and his capabilities. You'll find many instances of his tunefulness here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaHF-8eYxBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYtjaVR6tiI
His energy totally sells the songs.
I know this topic has been beat to death...
In part, that's what we're here for. No need to apologize!
Bon Scott was an original and an authentic presence in that band. I hope to better appreciate his contributions next time I crank that stuff.
As someone who's in the midst of putting the finishing touches on a reverse engineered AC/DC track, I'd be interested to hear what your theories are.
h.
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