I agree except that how could these SAMASH instruments be the rejects when SAMASH sells more of them than any other outlet on EARTH?
I agree with the concept and I'm on board with the paranoia, the numbers just don't work.
Good morning Gergeley.

Excellent definition, EPG. Does this apply to Guitar Center too?

Thank the Moderator as well. He pinpointed the benefits of recording with equipment sold at Sam Ash stores.

Yours,
E. Pluribus

While I get the "drift" of this post ("gee these dorks sound terrible"), this post stinks. I've had pretty good luck with gear from Sam Ash (and other mega-music-gear distributors).

The following can be said:

1. These are YouTube videos. Anything you purchased at your local boutique/mom and pop music gear emporium will sound equally atrocious in a YouTube video.

2. It is the player's poor judgment on settings that can make good gear sound bad.

3. A more serious problem is walking into your local "Banjo Mart" and having to listen to 14 year olds play the latest Nu-Metal riff on a perfectly good Strat/Tele/Martin/Your Favorite Brand axe.

4. The most egregious issue I have with these videos is that grown men would agree to be videotaped playing a guitar that looks like Tony The Tiger.

4. The most egregious issue I have with these videos is that grown men would agree to be videotaped playing a guitar that looks like Tony The Tiger.

And the fact that they're playing solo reinforces the masturbatory nature of the act. It made me feel dirty to be watching it here at work.

3. A more serious problem is walking into your local "Banjo Mart" and having to listen to 14 year olds play the latest Nu-Metal riff on a perfectly good Strat/Tele/Martin/Your Favorite Brand axe.

Buying a guitar online is a very risky proposition, but people do it (I've bought a couple on Ebay), and one of the main reasons is that people can't face going to the store and having to hear other people playing so loud that you can't hear whether the instrument you're holding is any good or not.

At my local Guitar Center (no Sam Ash here), the acoustic guitars are in a separate, supposedly soundproof room, and there's even a more isolated inner sanctum in there, where the really nice acoustics are. I once tried to let myself be tempted to buy a Taylor 12-string in there, but I could still hear the metallic wankery through the walls, so I gave up.

BigSteve, I'm not trying to call you out or anything, but I just cannot understand how anybody could buy a guitar off eBay. They're such personal things, and vary so much from one to another. I'm sure you know and agree with this, so... how? Why?

Buying a guitar online is a very risky proposition

Agreed. But I've also had luck with both ordering a guitar through a smaller music store (George's Music in Springfield PA) after trying a similar instrument in the store, and also ordering a cheap bass online through Sweetwater. Both instruments play well and sound good.

I've also just recently had to deal with the "not-so-soundproof-room" issue when buying a set of studio monitors from Sam Ash. Even with the door closed, the drum solos from across the store were coming into the listening room...

Remember, folks: what's at issue here is a definition of the term the "Sam Ash Sound." I trust this will help future generations build on their language for discussing rock music.

New Orleans was never a big guitar market, so it has never had a lot of stores with good selections of guitars to try. Once Guitar Center came in, several older stores closed. A couple of boutique type places have opened up downtown, but that's mostly used instruments, plus attitude at no extra charge.

My Ebay experience was that I had owned a couple of Carvins over the years, ordered them direct and been very happy with them. They have a reputation for consistency, and the Ebay price was very right for the instruments I bought -- $300 for a fat strat that I used as a slide guitar (now defunct) and $400 for my very much not approved by RTH fretless 5-string acoustic/electric bass (with a very pretty flamed maple top), which I still own and love dearly.

I've never actually been in a Sam Ash, so I fear I am unable to contribute the defining the sound. Plus I can't stop thinking about Styx.

I've never played a Carvin, but have always been curious. I would assume they're engineered to have a very *un*-idiosyncratic sound -- like the Paul Reed Smiths of the 70s. True?

Mr. Clean,

About three weeks ago, I took a long car ride to Central PA. During that ride, I listened , once again, to the Baby Flamehead opus "Life Sandwich". It ruled when I bought it way back when, and it STILL rules. Because you were a participant in that project, I'm apologizing for contributing the piece on "The Sam Ash Sound." Know that I did not contribute the videos (although, in my estimation, they are very funny).

Still a major Babyflamehead fan,
E. Pluribus

Mr. Clean,

I just watched the videos again. The are undeniably amusing. That said, the sound and performances aren't in the least representative of "The Sam Ash Sound". The key to "The Sam Ash Sound" is threefold: lifelessness, technical perfection, and treble. One can probably argue that the sound itself has very little to do with Sam Ash or the chain which made him a household name. How the sound most probably got its name is that it's so bright and tinny, the aural equivalent of the interior of any Sam Ash store. Check out the following clip of the Monkees at their all time worst. There's a hollowness to the whole thing that's horriying. Listen closely to the Telecaster in particular. To these ears, that sound best exemplifies "The Sam Ash Sound". Bright, trebly, easy, Karaokelike, nauseating.

Again, I apologize for offending you. And congratulations again for your work on "Life Sandwich." I've heard that you and Slocum went through psychological hell during that whole project, but to these ears it was worth it, even if it meant a montly visits for shock therapy. Some time ago, Slocum was going to send me an MP3 of a Flamehead concert during their heyday. As of this writing, I STILL do not have that recording, most probably because I said or did something offensive to his highness. I am now appealing to you to send me that recording.

Sincerely,
E. Pluribus

Whoops!

Here's the Monkees clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoQ53TXIBPM

epluribusgergely: No apology needed. I now "see" what you and Mr. Mod are looking for in the definition of the "The Sam Ash Sound". It is an ignorance of good tone and taste and it has no "soul" really...

And thanks for the BFH compliments. I don't know if I have any live shows but I do have 5 unreleased BFH Version 2.0 songs that were recorded with myself and saturnismine on the bass. Contact me offline if you'd like those.

I have some tapes of late period Baby Flamehead recordings (MrClean and maybe even some post-MrClean), plus a live set done in a suburban living room early on in the band's career. Nothing bounced to digital yet, alas. I'll have to dig them out of the stacks.

I'm glad for the sake of the Hall that EPG and Mrclean have reached agreement. I will post that Monkees clip first. It is a much better representation of the sound. As for the other videos, I simply got distracted by how amusing I found them. Sorry, all!

Sam Ashe Sound = most of the music made past the year 1990 that townsman hrrundi thinks is great.

I kid, I kid.

but aren't townsman hrrundi's tastes integral to the initial development of this term? his curiosity about carvins suggests as much....

townsman t-vox, are these the late period flamehead sessions at third story ca. 1991 / 92 that i played on?

i gotta get my hands on that stuff. unrath says he has a dat of those sessions.

or is it the "gimme" stuff, post townsman mrclean and i, that i recorded?

Whoah, there, hoss! You can bust my balls all you want about ELO, Prince, ZZ Top, the Velvets, Dylan, and the length of my johnson -- but you cross a serious line when you start to suggest that my tastes in guitar tone-dom drift towards the Carvin/PRS/Steve Vai signature Ibanez camp. Those are fighting words, prof!

Hrrundivb, I've never played a PRS. But I would say you're probably right about the non-idiosyncratic nature of their production. I provide the idiosyncrasy when I play, not the guitar.

chill hrrundi.

you wrote "I've never played a Carvin, but have always been curious."

This prompted me to write that your "curiosity about Carvins suggests" your importance to this discussion.

and i've crossed a "serious" line? I'm beginning to worry about you.

We've entered the dog days of summer, Saturnismine. See the haze rising from the Astroturf. Everyone's getting a little hot around the collar!

TELL me about it, mr. mod!

i never smoked astroturf.

Re the dog days of summer, I'll say this about San Diego, weird place that it is: in August, we may very well have the best weather in the world. Sunny and warm, but with cooling ocean breezes. Just the right season to play a little Poco. Have we ever blogged about the soft rock bands of the perpetual 70s summer?

Saturnismine wrote:

townsman t-vox, are these the late period flamehead sessions at third story ca. 1991 / 92 that i played on?
i gotta get my hands on that stuff. unrath says he has a dat of those sessions.
or is it the "gimme" stuff, post townsman mrclean and i, that i recorded?

Yeah, I have a cassette of 6 tunes of Flamehead which I think you played on and another 5 tunes of early Gimme (done prior to my joining Gimme as bassist). So you recorded that early Gimme stuff? Huh. I didn't know that. Unrath may have a DAT of the Flamehead stuff, but archiving was never his strong suit, so good luck to him finding it. Maybe I should just digitize what I've got, which is a copy of a cassette. MrClean may have a cleaner copy?

I've got saturnismine all hooked up with the third story stuff (is only 5 tunes actually). But I'd be interested in the Gimmie stuff I played on. I remember recording some things at Eardrumland.

We should spare the RTH the insider trading and take this offline! Sorry folks!

Mrclean wrote:

We should spare the RTH the insider trading and take this offline! Sorry folks!

Better yet, you should post some of these delights to the Halls of Rock for all of us to enjoy!

Hear, hear!

Hey Moderator,

Art brought up a very good point. The genesis of the term "The Sam Ash Sound" did indeed begin with Fritz. Somehow or another, he needs to be worked into that definition. If you have any ideas about how this can be accomplished, please e-mail me. Musicians across the globe need a firm understanding of the term so they can freely use it to chastise bandmates, ala "Do something about your Sam Ash Sound, turn dow the friggin' treble", "Too clean, too Sam Ash Sound, think Crazy Horse", "your snare's too Sam Ash Sound", make it less tinny", etc.

A lot of people are really counting on us.

Yours,
E. Pluribus

Hey, Plurbs -- don't let the fact that lots of folks prefer the roar of a coked-out, 1975-era Aerosmith over a tinny, derivative, pill-poppin' 1964 Rolling Stones cloud your judgement here. I know we understand each other on the awfulness of the Sam Ash Sound. I think your personal sense of musical persecution is getting in the way of rational thought in this discussion.

Fritz,

Your inclusion in the definition is not meant to dsparage your good name. The issue at had is purely technical. Don't do anything rash to ruin the solid bond between you and me.

E. Pluribus

EPG wrote:

Hey Moderator,

Art brought up a very good point. The genesis of the term "The Sam Ash Sound" did indeed begin with Hrrundi. Somehow or another, he needs to be worked into that definition. If you have any ideas about how this can be accomplished, please e-mail me...

Great points. Perhaps RTH Labs could work up a demonstration piece of the full spectrum of The Sam Ash Sound.