It's possible that the power-pop teat no longer produces fresh milk. I mean, can any band even get away with a Rickenbacker guitar anymore?

Grunge milk has been consumed, simultaneously puked and shit/pissed out, and consumed off the floor 2 or 3 times over by the likes of 94YSP bands for about the last 15 years.

duh.

unrelated and funny:
http://www.futurerockhall.com/artist.php?artist_id=Dennis_DeYoung

Here's another one, since it seems some of you have spotted The Cool Patrol nearby: Neil Young. There's Neil Young. Then there was America's :Horse With No Name". Then there was more Neil Young followed by a slew of alt.country and suede-psych bands, many of whom did their own take on the full spectrum of Neil Young. In between all that there was Yo La Tengo (yes, them again) doing their 10-minute "Like a Hurricane" spazz-outs. Is there anything more to be gained by milking the very cool works of Neil Young?

Is there a worthwhile drop left in Mr. Mod's boys the Byrds?

meanstom asked:

Is there a worthwhile drop left in Mr. Mod's boys the Byrds?

I don't know, is there anything else to be learned from those bearded, post-Sweethearts albums? Are there any more verses young bands can chop out of Dylan songs?

Must not be, since Yo La Tengo did a song or two that sounded like the Byrds. They also desiccated the Kinks, too I hear.

I demand you change the banner to read, Bands that Yo La Tengo Has Milked Dry.

"those bearded post sweetheart albums"

those were the birth of coke rock, and no there is nothing else to milk there.

Then there was Neil Young's arc and weld and the sonic youth/social distortion tour.

There's a little milk left if those Kinks teats - few have even attempted to milk their respectable '70s arena rock, for instance, a musical template that might serve as a reasonable change of pace for Fountains of Wayne.

It does seem like I'm picking on Yo La Tengo, doesn't it? That's not intentional. I just got done listening to some songs from their latest album, which are pretty good.

I've been finding this thread depressing, because I keep thinking to myself, "Well, that rock and roll thing has gone kinda dry, huh?" I don't completely mean it, but I keep wanting to say it, because I'm not sure I don't mean it. So maybe the better question is what hasn't gone dry, rather than what has.

I'd say Teenage Fanclub squeezed plenty of good stuff from the Byrds and Neil, but that was a while ago now.

Also, while they don't sound a whole lot like Neil, my new obsession is The Weakerthans, who are also from Winnipeg. They've certainly breathed some life into rock 'n' roll that occasionally has a pedal steel guitar.

I think it only gets dry if you try to milk just one thing at a time. In the post-modern world I think artists can mix and match influences more or less indefinitely. But you've got to mix it up.

Mwall wrote:

I've been finding this thread depressing, because I keep thinking to myself, "Well, that rock and roll thing has gone kinda dry, huh?" I don't completely mean it, but I keep wanting to say it, because I'm not sure I don't mean it. So maybe the better question is what hasn't gone dry, rather than what has.

A reasonable and inevitable question. Thanks for bringing it to the table. You know what hasn't been milked dry - and barely milked at all? Music with hard rock dynamics (eg, Zeppelin, AC/DC) that doesn't have retarded lyrics.

I also think few have done much with the fertile ground provided by Roxy Music and Eno in their balls-out Art Rock period of the early '70s, before they got all slick and/or ambient on us.

BigSteve wrote:

I think it only gets dry if you try to milk just one thing at a time. In the post-modern world I think artists can mix and match influences more or less indefinitely. But you've got to mix it up.

Do you think this really happens, or do we just like to believe it does? Is there an example of a successful postmodern milking of one of these artists or a similarly milked artist? It seems like a good idea.

I've got to admit, i'm a little grossed out/turned on by the teat metaphor!

I don't think the teat of early Who or Small Faces has been milkbed dry. Many have sucked but there still liquid gold in there for those who know hot to get at it right.

Also, while they don't sound a whole lot like Neil, my new obsession is The Weakerthans, who are also from Winnipeg. They've certainly breathed some life into rock 'n' roll that occasionally has a pedal steel guitar.

Don't sound a whole lot like Neil? Have you heard the new song that's all over CBC Radio 3 from the Rheostatics tribute album, "Bad Time To Be Poor"? They're doing a total "Like A Hurricane" cop!

Oats! Hie ye over to the gmail account! And that goes for the rest o' yas as well!

Aside to Mr. Mod:

Dude. Yer mom is hot.

"Bad Time To Be Poor" even has the word "young" in it twice. It almost seems like a name check.

Okay, that sounds like Neil. (And it's pretty great to boot; thanks.) I'm sure there's a line of Neilness running through at least some of their songs, but it's never that obvious.

Mr. Mod the mixture of influences is what all the kool kidz are doing. Someone else brought up YLT, who are sometimes described as a VU-influenced band, but as I think others have said there's Kinks and Neil Young and Sun Ra in there too. I'm watching a recording of the Decemberists on this past week's Austin City Limits right now, and they certainly have some of Roxy Music's extravagant, vaguely proggish art-rock, but with a folk-rock bent.

Are there really that many bands that are nothing more than tribute bands?

Whoever said there's still a drop or two of milk left in the wizened teat of early Who is bonkers. The heaving, alabaster bosom of 1970s Who, however... I keep waiting for a band to emerge that knows how much sustenance can be found in those semi-pompous, power-chordy anthems.

This gets to a topic I really want to explore here. Maybe this is the time to tip my hand: is there a "classic" rock band that gets so much RTH love and so little discussion as the Who? Other than Mod's amiable jabs at me for loving their "Join Together" video, those guys get a whole lot of nothin' round these parts. Lord knows there's a lot to argue about with 70s Who:

- "Who By Numbers": Turd or Treasure?
- Who album covers: why were they so consistently awful?
- Greatest Who 70s LP: is there anybody who *doesn't* think it's "Quadrophenia"?
- "Live At Leeds": greatest live rock album ever, or over-indulgent wank-fest?
- Shoud the band have called it quits after Moonie's death?

BigSteve wrote:

Someone else brought up YLT, who are sometimes described as a VU-influenced band, but as I think others have said there's Kinks and Neil Young and Sun Ra in there too.

I don't know about Sun Ra, but I usually hear Yo La Tengo songs and think, "Here's their Neil Young song...Here's their Kinks song...Here's their VU song..." I know it's not that simple, but I'm not hearing anything that trailblazing in terms of sythesis in their music. I need a better example of how someone's taken the sound of any one of those 3 bands and made it work in a new way.

I'll have to take your word on The Decemberists. Whenever I hear their music they sound pleasant but not anything like what I get out of the first 3 Roxy Music albums. Are you sure you're not mixing up some guy's long lock of bangs with Bryan Ferry's and, therefore, hearing more than meets the ear?

Hrrundi asked:

"Who By Numbers": Turd or Treasure?

Disappointment - not half as good as I always want it to be.

Who album covers: why were they so consistently awful?

I think it had something to do with that "Join Together" philosophy.

Greatest Who 70s LP: is there anybody who *doesn't* think it's "Quadrophenia"?

Yes, I think it's Who's Next.

"Live At Leeds": greatest live rock album ever, or over-indulgent wank-fest?

A little bit of the former, more of the latter.

Should the band have called it quits after Moonie's death?

Of course, if not earlier!

I would just like to offer my support to the “Join Together” side in the coming Rock Town Schism. It would be in theoretical contention for a hypothetical top ten spot in some non-existent best videos/official promotional clips list.

In the interest of not missing something I’d enjoy, which bands have best milked the Kinks and early Who sounds? I’m also interested in more on who’s occupying the hard rock dynamics with good lyrics camp.

Okay, that sounds like Neil. (And it's pretty great to boot; thanks.) I'm sure there's a line of Neilness running through at least some of their songs, but it's never that obvious.

Yeah, I just thought it was funny to hear you say that at a time when I'm fairly addicted to this hugely obvious Neil Young cop of theirs.

But no, as a general rule, the Weakerthans don't sound much like the Neiler. They are, however, friggin' awesome: RECONSTRUCTION SITE is very likely to end up high on my list of best albums of the decade.

- "Who By Numbers": Turd or Treasure?

Turd!!(the better the album cover, the worse the music; see Iron Maiden)

- Who album covers: why were they so consistently awful?

'cause the music inside is so damned good! (see above)

- Greatest Who 70s LP: is there anybody who *doesn't* think it's "Quadrophenia"?

Who's Next

- "Live At Leeds": greatest live rock album ever, or over-indulgent wank-fest?

best live rock and roll album EVER!

- Shoud the band have called it quits after Moonie's death?
I kinda feel like they did. I use a mental tecnique i call "the godfather 3" with this mental approach, i can ignore something completely enough, that for me, it ceases to exist...

...as long as no one brings it up.

I'll have to take your word on The Decemberists. Whenever I hear their music they sound pleasant but not anything like what I get out of the first 3 Roxy Music albums. Are you sure you're not mixing up some guy's long lock of bangs with Bryan Ferry's and, therefore, hearing more than meets the ear?

You are positively deaf if you don't hear friggin' HUGE amounts of '70s prog in the Decemberists, but I would disagree with BigSteve in picking out Roxy Music as a specific touchstone: the folkie side of British prog is far more applicable, everything from Mike Oldfield to Fairport to the quieter side of Jethro Tull.

This is how proggy the Decemberists are: we're seeing them in a couple of weeks (we see them every time they come through Boston because they're Charity's favorite band) on a tour they're calling The Long And The Short Of It. Two nights at the Orpheum: one night of the three-minute pop songs, one night of the 10-to-20 minute epics.

1. Mostly turd
2. That's a fair question worth pondering at some length
3. WHO'S NEXT, numbnuts
4. Isn't it just the encore from the TOMMY show? I move for the third option, "leftovers."
5. No. They should have called it quits after QUADROPHENIA.

Great One,

I can hear that British folk-rock stuff in the Decemberists. That's NOTHING LIKE WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT REGARDING EARLY ROXY MUSIC! In fact, I never even brought "prog" into the discussion; that was BigSteve's doing. I consider early Roxy Music about as "Art Rock" as it gets. They rocked heavily, in an artsty way. Nevertheless, they wrote and performed rock 'n roll songs. The Decemberists don't strike me as rocking heavily. Have I missed some key tracks?

The band that really milks the Who and Kinks well is Robert Pollard/Guided by Voices.

A band that does a "postmodern" mixing of sounds is Animal Collective. The rhythms are hip-hop, trance, Krautrock, the melodic influences are all over the map: ranging from folk to Beach Boys to dub reggae.

The Decemberists don't strike me as rocking heavily. Have I missed some key tracks?

At the very least, you've missed "The Tain," which the man himself told me was explicitly influenced by Black Sabbath, and which sounds it.

What? I can't milk the Who, Kinks, and Byrds anymore? Crap. I guess I should hang up my cleats, huh?

Just to clarify, I wasn't claiming that the Decemberists sounded like Roxy Music. I was just saying that they play a kind of very arty art-rock mixed with prog, just like Roxy. They just leave out Roxy's retro/futurism and replace it with folk.

Other than that they're exactly the same.

I don't know about Sun Ra

Yo La Tengo covered Sun Ra's "Nuclear War" and put it out on an EP of the same name. Furthermore, they've played shows with the Sun Ra Arkestra. For instance, they opened for YLT a few years ago on one of the Hanukkah shows they did that year.

Just to clarify, I wasn't claiming that the Decemberists sounded like Roxy Music. I was just saying that they play a kind of very arty art-rock mixed with prog, just like Roxy. They just leave out Roxy's retro/futurism and replace it with folk.

Other than that they're exactly the same.

So then a fair portion of Roxy Music's lyrics were about subjects like legionnaires, pirates, chimney sweeps and medieval Irish battles? The Roxy Music comparison is a bit absurd IMO. Now The Decemberists and late '60s British folk as well as (on occasion) Jethro Tull, Peter Gabriel-era Genesis and ELP, that's another story. I should also point out that The Tain and parts of their last album The Crane Wife are generally more proggy than their rest of their output.

RE: The Decemberists

This has been bothering the hell out of me since I first heard ‘The Crane Wife’.

Everyone keeps throwing the ‘prog’ tag around to describe the Decemberists, but I simply don’t hear it. I don’t hear the flashy prog musicianship and rarely hear extended harmonics. I don’t hear leitmotifs. I don’t hear reprises. I don’t hear gradually developing themes. Their 10 minute plus ‘suites’ simply sound like they’re stuck 3x3 minute pop songs together and played them sans rills.

There’s also a hell of what sounds like ‘busking’ to my ears – parts that give the impression of being created on the fly, and sound uncrafted and underdeveloped. Take the accordion on ‘Shankill Butchers’, which is just crying out for little strokes of wicked ornamentation to colour a very stark song.

Then you get embarrassing moments like on ‘The Island’, where the keyboardist plays a repetitious, classically-based perpetual-motion figure, that’s trying to emulate Rick Wakeman, but doesn’t have the chops to still be keeping steady time by the third of fourth repetition. Makes me cringe every time I hear it.

How about a lack of dynamics? Both ‘The Perfect Crime No.2’ and ‘When The War Came’ hit their grooves and don’t really sound any different 5+ minutes later.

I don’t know what happened between ‘Picaresque’ and ‘The Crane Wife’, but maybe the material wasn’t rehearsed and developed properly, since it sounds like the band is only really ‘on’ for about four of the tracks.

Just because it’s in the record’s press release states ‘it’s Prog’ doesn’t make it true.

Bring it on, homefrontradio! Welcome to the fray. Keep it coming.

Homie said:

Everyone keeps throwing the ‘prog’ tag around to describe the Decemberists, but I simply don’t hear it. ... Their 10 minute plus ‘suites’ simply sound like they’re stuck 3x3 minute pop songs together and played them sans rills....parts that give the impression of being created on the fly, and sound uncrafted and underdeveloped... a repetitious, classically-based perpetual-motion figure... but doesn’t have the chops to still be keeping steady time by the third of fourth repetition...hit their grooves and don’t really sound any different 5+ minutes later....

Sounds like prog to me.

Just because it’s in the record’s press release states ‘it’s Prog’ doesn’t make it true.

Not believing press releases? That's just crazy talk.

Seriously though, I think extended forms, whatever structural principles are involved, qualify as prog. The historico-mythical subject matter of the lyrics is pretty proggy too.

[blockquote]Seriously though, I think extended forms, whatever structural principles are involved, qualify as prog.[/blockquote]

Fair enough. I view it more as being a part of the writing process itself. Side Two of 'Abbey Road' is a long suite of separately composed fragments arranged into one continuous piece. I don't consider it 'proggy' in the slightest.

'The Island' strikes me as much the same thing - three separately written musical pieces played as one, with a sense of unity attempted to be given through the lyrics, somewhat unsuccessfully. For me, it falls into the 'let's slap these unfinished songs together' category of the 1999 Matthew Sweet suite 'Thunderstorm' or those lesser-loved Wings albums that have suites made up of the songs McCartney couldn't be bothered to finish off properly.

On a lighter note, everytime I hear 'Song For Myla Goldberg' i'm amazed by the melodic resemblance to 'C'mon Everyboy' from 'Guest Host', a solo album by Stew from retro-power-poppers The Negro Problem that came out in 2000. If it is a steal, kudos to Meloy for being both amazingly obscure and admirably tasteful.

I could never understand why The Decemberists got all the attention, when Michigan band 'Great Lakes Myth Society' had been mining the same historical / sea shanty / drinking song ground since 1999 to much greater, if less poppy, effect. The Decemberists are pretentious because they believe they're smart, the GLMS guys are pretentious because they are smart, and have been quietly churning out what amounts to the American Equivalent to the detailed, thoughtful work of mid-period XTC. Their 2005 eponymous release is the American 'Skylarking' in both scope and depth.

Oh, as to the 'milked dry' thing, my vote is for all the bands that want to emmulate 'Pet Sounds'-era Beach Boys, so pile on the harmonies and orchestral arrangements, but don't have it in them to write similarly transcendant melodies for their choruses. I'm looking at you, High Llamas. And you Fugu. And Chamber Strings. And especially the three-legged R.E.M, who are consistently awful in that area. They all build up to peaks that simply don't happen and are the aural equivilant of having a sluttily-dressed girlfriend who never puts out and leaves you with blue balls.

Finally, I know it's not 'critically correct', but i love 70's Kinks far more than 60's Kinks.

Hey, Homey -- I went out and found GLMS' MySpace page and listened to a coupla trax. GREAT stuff! Sure, the influences they cite make them seem like just another technically polished prock extravaganza, but I'm tellin' ya it just ain't so. Thanks for the excellent referral -- and, yeah, these guys kick the Decembrists' girly asses down the block and back!

HVB

I could never understand why The Decemberists got all the attention, when Michigan band 'Great Lakes Myth Society' had been mining the same historical / sea shanty / drinking song ground since 1999 to much greater, if less poppy, effect.

Well, The Decemberists were on a cool label (Kill Rock Stars) and then a major label (Capitol) Sub Pop, and the Northwest is a hipper place to be from than Michigan, but the real key lies in the other thread Mr Mod just posted. I took a look at the GLMS website, and from what I can see, they don't have a handsome, charismatic frontman. I was indeed expecting Meloy to be somewhat girly, as hvb said, from the audio evidence, but in person the reality is quite different.

Okay, you lost your credibility when you tried to pull the "High Llamas are ripping off PET SOUNDS" canard. One album (and, interestingly, not the album that people always claim is the one that's ripping off PET SOUNDS, which sounds nothing like it) in a fairly lengthy career does not a PET SOUNDS ripoff artist make.

Well, The Decemberists were on a cool label (Kill Rock Stars) and then a major label (Capitol) Sub Pop, and the Northwest is a hipper place to be from than Michigan, but the real key lies in the other thread Mr Mod just posted. I took a look at the GLMS website, and from what I can see, they don't have a handsome, charismatic frontman. I was indeed expecting Meloy to be somewhat girly, as hvb said, from the audio evidence, but in person the reality is quite different.

What does Sub Pop have to do with anything? The Decemberists were never signed to that label.

As for answering the original question, though, I can't believe that no one as of yet has named The Bends-era Radiohead and Jeff Buckley (think Coldplay, Travis, Starsailor) as artists whose influence has been milked extensively.

Furthermore, to answer another point stated early on in this thread, I think that for a few albums, Squeeze (yes Squeeze) sort of picked up on the early Roxy Music mantle. I was listening to Argybargy earlier this morning and I hear Roxy's influence all over that album. For instance, note the guitar sound and melody of "Separate Beds" and that's just the most obvious example. Maybe it's just an example of early Roxy Music's huge influence on new wave in general, though, so I don't know if that would qualify as Squeeze obviously had a major '60s pop sensibility and kitchen-sink drama lyrical quality that Roxy didn't.

What does Sub Pop have to do with anything? The Decemberists were never signed to that label.

I was going to do a typo correction post, but I thought maybe people would figure it out. I originally wrote Sub Pop, went and checked my information, corrected it to read Kill Rock Stars, but neglected to edit out the words "Sub Pop."

... Squeeze obviously had a major '60s pop sensibility and kitchen-sink drama lyrical quality that Roxy didn't.

I don't know, I'm thinking of In Every Dream Home a Heartache as being kind of kitchen-sink. It's just that the sink is made from imported marble.

Hey, G48 -- sorry to have to call bullshit on you, but Homey is right. I've got all the High Llamas stuff from "Hawaii" through "Cold and Bouncy," and there is no doubt that Sean What's-his-name keeps going back to that Brian Wilson well over and over and over. It may not always be "Pet Sounds" -- in fact, I think his overused source material is more in the line of Smile, but the point stands, I think.

Which is not to say I don't like the High Llamas well enough. I did, however, finally stop buying their albums because I was tired of the relentless Wilsonisms. Whether warm and organic or cold and mechanical, the band just couldn't stop recreating "Smile," and I got tired of it.

Hey, G48 -- sorry to have to call bullshit on you, but Homey is right. I've got all the High Llamas stuff from "Hawaii" through "Cold and Bouncy," and there is no doubt that Sean What's-his-name keeps going back to that Brian Wilson well over and over and over. It may not always be "Pet Sounds" -- in fact, I think his overused source material is more in the line of Smile, but the point stands, I think.

Wow! You have ALL the High Llamas stuff from HAWAII through COLD AND BOUNCY? That means you have...erm...those two albums. Which were sequential. Out of the nine albums they've done.

Do you want to try again on this or shall I just mock you on this point and leave it at that?

G48: I misspoke. Actually, I have "Gideon Gaye" through "Snowbug." My point stands: you're full of shit, and that Sean guy is a Brian Wilson ass-licker.

Alexmagic sez:

In the interest of not missing something I'd enjoy, which bands have best milked the Kinks and early Who sounds?

Do you already have the Lily's "Better Can't Make You're Life Better"? If not, get it. It is one of my favorite all time records from start to finish.

Mr. Mod: Has a thread been devoted to "Complete Albums We Love With No Dud Songs On Them At All"?

Sorry Bakshi, but 'tis you fairly filled to the brim with ordure on this particular topic. If all you're hearing in those albums is Brian Wilson, then my suspicion has to be that either you haven't particularly listened to the albums or you don't know what Brian Wilson's music actually sounds like. (This is not to say that the High Llamas albums are not bursting with deliberate pastiches, clear homages and outright steals, but that Brian Wilson is, at best, about fifth or sixth on the list of artists they're biting.) Because what you're doing here is parroting the Pitchfork party line, which is, as you say, full of shit. I detect the pow'ful stench of Received Wisdom here, my friend, and as always, it's wrong.