The Who debate has been moved to the Main Stage, with a slighty different list of questions.

Hey, Mod, for some reason the YouTube clip I posted isn't showing up. Any ideas?

. Show of hands: let's leave aside the issue of lip-synch'ing for a moment: rate the Who's BBC "Join Together" clip as a source of rock entertainment. Scale of one to 10: how much do you enjoy watching it?

Pi.

2. Our Moderator has said he finds "Who By Numbers" disappointing. I think that's a mealy-mouthed way of ducking his responsibility to declare the thing a "turd" or a "treasure." Where do you come down on this album?

Tonsure. I do like it, however, as always in mod-eration. There is still some cool rhythm stuff in that one from Entwistle and Moon, which balances out the lyrical indulgences for me.

3. Name the worst -- and the best -- album covers in the 1970s Who canon.

Are You and Next.

4. 'Fess up: how many times have you actually listened to "Live At Leeds" from start to finish? Speaking for myself, I can barely make it through one track of that album at a time.

That's somewhat unfair, given that I've heard the vinyl more often and listen to a side at a time mostly. The reissued one, probably half a dozen or so times. Naturally I zone out a bit during some of the wankery.

5. Once again, I ask: should the band have called it quits when Moonie died?

Yes. Pete's solo albums were better than the post-Moon Who ones; that says enough. But I think he lost it on the Who Are You album tracks anyway. The material Townshend was writing then put him in an awkward place.

6. SHOWDOWN! "Who's Next" or "Quadrophenia"?

Quadrophenia if I can lift the needle for "The Rock". One instrumental ponderock workout is enough.

1.'How much do you enjoy watching it?" 1 - Rock bands shouldn't LS. What's the point? I know how the track sounds and I know what the band looks like - I want to see how good the energy translates live. Totally disappointing.

2. Turd.

3. Best - toss up between Odds and Sods and Who's Next. Worst - Who Are You.

4. Several.


5. Who's Next.

5. Yes.

Follow-up question:

How many of you actually connected the dots on the cover of "Who By Numbers"?

ME!

Me, too!

1. I find the legendary "Join Together" clip a bit demeaning to The Power and Glory of Rock, as usually represented by the best works of The Who. That little jaw's harp sound, for starters, is about as corny as it gets. The performance itself also makes me a bit uncomfortable. I feel ike I'm watching The Who perform on Zoom.

2. Thanks for calling bullshit on me; I thought I saw a member of The Cool Patrol out of the corner of my eye. Turd!

3. Worst album cover might be Face Dances, if that was still the '70s; otherwise put me down for Quadrophenia's big hunk of WTF? packaging. Best album cover is WHo's Next.

4. I've only listened to Live at Leeds one time through on my own; during my high school days sitting at the feet of Mike Cosgrove (http://overlookedgems.blogspot.com/2006/07/mike-cosgrove-basement-guitar-god-and.html), I was forced to listen to it another half dozen times - each time with him playing along note-for-note with Townshend.

5. Yes.

6. Who's Next!

1. Quite a bit less than that "Hotel California" video. But both songs have a lot in common!

2. I can never find anything interesting in it: turd.

3. Who's Next is cool. I'd have to look again to decide which one most sucks.

4. If we're talking the single CD version, I have listened to it straight through on many long road trips, which often demand live albums.

5. I see why the answer should be yes, but I'll say no. The Power and The Glory of Rock is greater than any one musician.

6. Who's Next.

Thanks for your comments, Mwall, but *this* you've got to explain!

(I like the "Join Together" video) quite a bit less than that "Hotel California" video. But both songs have a lot in common!

They're both very specifically about The End of the Meaning of Rock.

1. Pretty good stuff, but never their best tune. And, let's face it, anything off BBC domestic (or with multicam production) is going to seem lip synched compared with real live footage.

2. Who By Numbers is a mixed bag. There. I've said it. Still love Slip Kick.

3. Worst is Live at Leeds. Best Who's Next.

4. Maybe twice. Not consciously, though.

5. Nah. If John Paul and Ringo had got together in the 90s, I'd have happily gone to see it. You can't choose your birthdate. For those of us who had no chance of seeing them before Moon bought it, you have to let hope live.

6. No contest. Who's Next - best pound for pound rock album ever.

Gotta strongly disagree with the points being taken off for lip-synching in the video in terms of judging its greatness as a source of rock entertainment. If anything, the lip-synching is part of what makes it work, Townshend makes it clear what’s going on with the exaggerated posturing and moves. Look at him from about the 3:28 mark (counting down, how it plays above), where he starts off doing a guitar fist pump, switches to a mock Jagger strut, uses a gigantic front kick and head dip segue and then decides to pretend to play his part, in the span of about 12 seconds, while Entwistle just wanders away in the background and disappears for about two minutes.

2:05 left in the countdown, Moon sets up to flip one of his drumsticks with a grand gesture, then completely misses the catch. He gets the lost stick back a few seconds later for my favorite part, when they cut to him tapping them on his shoulders, ready to go. From there on out, the crowd sells it as the band wades in and the kids gamely risk their lives for the sake of art when Moon starts driving a motorized drum riser at them. This isn’t just some boring fake live performance video, this is theater.

I, for one, encourage mwall to expound upon the connection he sees between the hidden, harrowing depths of Hotel California and what this performance of Join Together has to say about the artifice of rock ‘n roll.

All that said, not a fan of Daltrey’s jacket in this one.

Odds & Sods for best ‘70s Who cover works, if it counts. Who Are You would be a perfectly acceptable cover for a cassette of Credence bootlegs.

"Who Are You would be a perfectly acceptable cover for a cassette of Credence bootlegs."

that shit's pretty funny man.

Alex, we REACH on this "Join Together" thing. You missed the weeks of back and forth I endured on the old list, trying to convince Moddie and just about everybody else around here that they were a bunch of pompous asses for not understanding why a great dramatic performance like this one was every bit as relevant as an accurate live music recreation of a studio recording. You've got it, though, brother -- keep the truth coming!

That was a great line, and welcome aboard Townsman urolddrummer! It's always good to know there's a drummer in the house, if that is in fact what your handle signifies.

Who question, inspired by the talk of underwhelming album covers and the like: where does the band logo rank in relation to other classic rock logos of note?

Alex asks:

where does the band logo rank in relation to other classic rock logos of note?

I suggest:

Talk about a thread that needs to move to the Main Stage! Rock logos -- YES! (I mean "yes, that's a good idea," not "consider the logo for the rock combo 'Yes.'"

1. I'm sorry I can't leave aside the lip sucking. Maybe a 2.

2. Who By Numbers is a treasure. My favorite Who album.

3. Quadrophenia is the best cover. Nonbe of the others are worth a damn.

4. I too only count the single-disc reissue, not the one with all the Tommy stuff. I love it all the way through. It was the LP version I didn't like.

5. Yes, Pete should have gone solo and not looked back.

6. Quadrophenia

Hold tight on that logos idea. That's a good one. We'll get it up on the Main Stage shortly!

I, for one, encourage mwall to expound upon the connection he sees between the hidden, harrowing depths of Hotel California and what this performance of Join Together has to say about the artifice of rock ‘n roll.

I have no idea what they say about the artifice of rock and roll. What I said was, they're both about The End of the Meaning of Rock. They're both examples of what you do when The Meaning of Rock no longer exists, at least to you; you can ape in a content-free fashion The Power and The Glory, or you can death trip.

Sorry for chiming in late on these, but here I go:

1. Show of hands: let's leave aside the issue of lip-synch'ing for a moment: rate the Who's BBC "Join Together" clip as a source of rock entertainment. Scale of 1 to 10: how much do you enjoy watching it?

The logarithmic function e (in the spirit of mockcarr's answer). :-) Seriously, I've never much liked this song, but I did find the "performance" entertaining for a variety of reasons, which include Roger's mutton chops, the use of the jaw harp, Roger going into the crowd and the random audience shots. I also love it when Moonie hits himself mockingly with his drum sticks during a quiet moment in the song.

2. Our Moderator has said he finds Who By Numbers disappointing. I think that's a mealy-mouthed way of ducking his responsibility to declare the thing a "turd" or a "treasure." Where do you come down on this album?

My Who collection stops with Quadrophenia, so I have to pass here as I've never actually heard this album.

3. Name the worst -- and the best -- album covers in the 1970s Who canon.

Best-Who's Next
Worst-Who are You

4. 'Fess up: how many times have you actually listened to Live At Leeds from start to finish? Speaking for myself, I can barely make it through one track of that album at a time.

None, as once again, I don't own it. Generally speaking, pre-Tommy Who interests me way more (and calling me a closet prockist if you like) than the later stuff does, though I've always had a soft spot for Who's Next and parts of Quadrophenia as well.

5. Once again, I ask: should the band have called it quits when Moonie died?

Yes

6. SHOWDOWN! Who's Next or Quadrophenia?

Who's Next by a mile!

Preliminary comment. I'm 41 years old and probably wouldn't be sitting in front of my computer in the middle of the night typing about music if it weren't for The Who. Their back catalog (both 60s and 70s) got my through my teen years and turned me on to rock music, which then lead to something bordering on obsession.

Now to the questions:

1. Seven. The song isn't that great, but they are a FUN band to watch move. Going beyond the clip, think generally about (1) Kieth's herky-jerky drumming style, (2) Roger's he-man mic swinging, (3) Pete's windmills, and (4) John's rock solid composure (apart from his fingers). The band members all had visual style.

2. treasure (on balance) - especially for "slip kid" and "blue, red, and grey".

3. Worst - Who Are You. Best - Quadrophenia.

4. Not in the last 12 years, at which time my buddies and I had a Live and Leeds party which featured massive speakers, repeated plays, and lots of black beer. Kind of had enough after that.

5. NO! Speaking completely selfishly here, but my first rock concert was seeing The Who's first Farewell Tour at the Pontiac Silverdome in 1982. A lot of people had a great time during that tour. And a lot of us youngsters (then) got a chance to see them. But immediately after the 1982 tour they should have disbanded for good. The Tommy tour in the late eighties did not have the same energy. I think Pete had to play in a box or something because of his hearing issues. Sad. And not very Rock and Roll.

6. My head says Who's Next. My heart says Quadrophenia. I'll call it a tie.

Thanks for your great website. I've been enjoying it awhile before registering (especially the German MMT series).