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Please Explain: Marianne Faithfull
12/19/07 | by Mr. Moderator
Any young Rolling Stones fan ready to move onto a deeper exploration of the Stones' saga will soon confront Marianne Faithfull: sweet young thing of noble breeding, girlfriend of Mick Jagger, protege of Mick, Keef, and Andrew Loog Oldham... This early clip demonstrates the "gimme" in this story: beatiful, young woman with the ability to barely carry a tune and backing from one of the world's greatest acts.
Soon thereafter, she would descend into a hellish world of drugs, free sex, and Mars Bars. She'd hit rock bottom and then heroically rebound with a voice that made Tom Waits sound angelic and barely a trace of her youthful beauty. Next is a clip of her in mid-fall, still wearing an evening gown but looking much more like one of the women from the final scenes in La Dolce Vita than Julie Christie in Darling.
Follow up:
This piece gives a nice summary of the descent and slow rise toward the comeback album, Broken English.
You wouldn't be visiting Rock Town Hall if you didn't know that she wrote a good deal of the Stones' "Sister Morphine" during these worst of times. The bastards tried to rip her off! Personally, I never got the thrill over the Stones' version of "Sister Morphine", but this version by Marianne Faithfull doesn't help matters.
That brings us to the big comeback album, Broken English, and the title track, which was a minor hit right around the time I'd been reading about this curious woman of Stones lore. The reviews for this album were fantastic. Then I heard the music. I didn't get it.
Here's anther track from that album. To be honest, the music's almost cool enough for me in that "I'm getting into Townsman Geo's head" kind of way. Geo, were you big on this album?
Revisiting "Broken English" after all these years I'm still puzzled. Do any of you actually like this music, or do you identify with her personal tale of triumph, kind of the way I suspect the mainstream of downtrodden and emotionally scarred music fans went head over heals for that big comeback record by Tina Turner.
She can't sing, can she? I don't mean she can't sing in a "Bob Dylan doesn't sing in a conventional way" style of not being able to sing, but that she doesn't hit many notes or project a pleasing or otherwise engaging vocal tone. Does she? "Broken English" sounds like a blah Yoko Ono track from Double Fantasy with a 3rd-rate Bonnie Tyler (making Faithfull a 5th-rate Rod Stewart) on vocals.
Is the love for Marianne Faithful all about the fanboy backstory and the triumph over her mostly self-inflicted wounds? The girl had it handed to her on a silver platter and she stuck that Mars Bar where the sun don't shine. Trust me, I'm not an insensitive type, but give me the Dusty Springfield story any day of the week - or the Tina Turner story for that matter. At least they could sing.
I can see how she serves as a den mother to a certain type of delicate rock flower, but please explain her musical appeal.
This is amusing and heartwarming.
This is not. Even huge fans of Marianne Faithfull may be bummed out by the following collaboration.
Certainly I'm missing something. I'm always missing something, and that's why I rely on you. I look forward to your explanations and enlightenment.
22 comments
Comment from: alexmagic [Member] 
I thought for sure one of the many clips up there would be the one of her scaring the shit out of a new generation in whichever lousy Metallica video that was she showed up in.
12/19/07 @ 09:56
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Yeah, I contemplated using that one, Alexmagic, but I went with the Corgan collaboration instead.
You're a bright and tasteful Townsperson. What's your take on the works of Marianne Faithful?
Still waiting to hear from Geo, BigSteve, The Great 48, General Slocum, dbuskirk, and some of our other more open-minded Townspeople. Too bad Gergely is still MIA. I bet he's got some thoughts on her early works.
You're a bright and tasteful Townsperson. What's your take on the works of Marianne Faithful?
Still waiting to hear from Geo, BigSteve, The Great 48, General Slocum, dbuskirk, and some of our other more open-minded Townspeople. Too bad Gergely is still MIA. I bet he's got some thoughts on her early works.
12/19/07 @ 10:08
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
If you don't like someone's voice, nothing is going to make you like it. Faithfull does fall into the category of vocal actor more than singer, which I usually don't like, but her voice definitely has character. I hadn't thought of it before, but there's something to the Dylan comparison.
When Broken English came out, I was only dimly aware of her past. I got into the album because it fit in with the electro/new wave stuff that was happening then. Wasn't she working with some of the same people that worked with Grace Jones around the same time? That's the way I think of it anyway. I like the title song, but it's the other one with the so-so video posted here that I really love. The Ballad of Lucy Jordan is a Shel Silverstein song, and I think it's brilliant. She croaks the hell out of it, and somehow the chilly synth-only accompaniment really works.
I kind of lost track of her during her Hal Wilner/Kurt Weill period, but her last two albums, Kissin' Time and Before the Poison, are awesome. She worked with a bunch of different people besides Corgan -- Nick Cave, Polly Harvey, Damon Albarn, etc -- but the material all sounds like her. I'm Into Something Good is one of those songs that's so good it's hard to ruin, but apparently you can ruin I Got You Babe.
I don't know that I'd recommend this recent work to someone who doesn't get her. I do enjoy hearing her early work now, because it makes it clearer to me where her voice comes from. I had remembered As Tears Go By as prettier than it really is, and on the other songs I've heard you can catch some of the graininess that she grew into later.
When Broken English came out, I was only dimly aware of her past. I got into the album because it fit in with the electro/new wave stuff that was happening then. Wasn't she working with some of the same people that worked with Grace Jones around the same time? That's the way I think of it anyway. I like the title song, but it's the other one with the so-so video posted here that I really love. The Ballad of Lucy Jordan is a Shel Silverstein song, and I think it's brilliant. She croaks the hell out of it, and somehow the chilly synth-only accompaniment really works.
I kind of lost track of her during her Hal Wilner/Kurt Weill period, but her last two albums, Kissin' Time and Before the Poison, are awesome. She worked with a bunch of different people besides Corgan -- Nick Cave, Polly Harvey, Damon Albarn, etc -- but the material all sounds like her. I'm Into Something Good is one of those songs that's so good it's hard to ruin, but apparently you can ruin I Got You Babe.
I don't know that I'd recommend this recent work to someone who doesn't get her. I do enjoy hearing her early work now, because it makes it clearer to me where her voice comes from. I had remembered As Tears Go By as prettier than it really is, and on the other songs I've heard you can catch some of the graininess that she grew into later.
12/19/07 @ 10:23
Comment from: Oats [Member]
I have Broken English, which I enjoy, though I haven't pulled it out in quite a while. The comparison with Tina Turner is interesting. If Tina in the '80s was a survivor writ large and positive, all shiny clothes, big hair, and famous legs, then Marianne was the survivor who took the opposite tack, making sure there was no question in the listener's mind regarding the ravages of time. In both cases, it's a bit of a construct that maybe amplifies each singer's personality, but that's rock 'n' roll, innit?
Anyway, I admit I think we need more femme fatale/bad-ass archetypes in rock, so Ms. Faithful is alright with me.
Anyway, I admit I think we need more femme fatale/bad-ass archetypes in rock, so Ms. Faithful is alright with me.
12/19/07 @ 10:38
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
Not to get all pince nezzy, but it's double-L Faithfull.
12/19/07 @ 10:51
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Spelling corrected, BigSteve. Thanks. Pince Nez used wisely!
12/19/07 @ 11:03
Comment from: the great 48 [Member]
Still waiting to hear from Geo, BigSteve, The Great 48, General Slocum, dbuskirk, and some of our other more open-minded Townspeople.
Having never heard more than a song here and there, I have nothing to add to the topic.
12/19/07 @ 11:35
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
So far, by my count, BigSteve is the only Townsperson to have spoken up for her music. I sense that Oats is putting a lot of stock in her iconic powers.
12/19/07 @ 13:03
I'm with Big Steve here. I can't really say it better than that. However, I should add that my favorite track on Broken English is "Why'd Ya Do It", one of the most scathing indictments of a cheating man that I've ever heard by anyone, ever. Like Steve said, it fit in well with what was happening at the time, in that song's case the fusion of punk/new wave and reggae typified by The Clash, The Police, The Slits, The Members and tons of other bands. Beyond Broken English, which I love, I only have the Faithfull compilation, which was my first exposure to her music. It contains most of Broken English and some later tracks dating up to 1994 or so. There's some cool stuff on there, including a cover of Patti Smith's "Ghost Dance", but I've never really ventured into her later (or earlier) albums.
I'll also say that I had no idea she actually wrote "Sister Morphine". I mean I always knew it was about her, but I just always thought that Mick and Keef wrote it.
Oh and that Mars Bar story (as cool as it is) is a total urban legend, but I'm thinking that you probably already knew that.
I'm glad to see you posted a video of her appearance in the 1980 Floor Show, which David Bowie staged in 1973 or 1974. I'd never seen it before, but I watched part of it with a Bowie-fanatic friend of mine a few weeks back. Man oh man was she fucked up. It's too bad that you don't really see more of her there.
Oh and I quite liked her collaboration with Joe Jackson on his 2000 album Night and Day II. She sings a song called "Love Got Lost". In typical fashion, she disparaged Joe after the collaboration, saying the song was really about him (it's the tale of a lonely professional woman in her 50s who buys an extra seat at the opera, which she uses for her coat).
I'll also say that I had no idea she actually wrote "Sister Morphine". I mean I always knew it was about her, but I just always thought that Mick and Keef wrote it.
Oh and that Mars Bar story (as cool as it is) is a total urban legend, but I'm thinking that you probably already knew that.
I'm glad to see you posted a video of her appearance in the 1980 Floor Show, which David Bowie staged in 1973 or 1974. I'd never seen it before, but I watched part of it with a Bowie-fanatic friend of mine a few weeks back. Man oh man was she fucked up. It's too bad that you don't really see more of her there.
Oh and I quite liked her collaboration with Joe Jackson on his 2000 album Night and Day II. She sings a song called "Love Got Lost". In typical fashion, she disparaged Joe after the collaboration, saying the song was really about him (it's the tale of a lonely professional woman in her 50s who buys an extra seat at the opera, which she uses for her coat).
12/19/07 @ 17:13
Comment from: dbuskirk [Member]
I'm completely sold on Faithfull for her pre-comeback 60's Decca career. I love the Brit folk stuff but her "inauthentic" pop production flourishes are completely welcome to these ears. Plus she does all that 60's pop standards stuff, like Jacques Brel, Beatles, Michel Legrande kind of stuff that I'm a fan of. She's the hip crosssover artist I wished Judy Collins was (a past exploration that bore little fruit). I'd just as soon throw on FAITHFULL FOREVER than many of the era's overplayed classics these days.
I've heard the comeback stuff but don't own too much of it. I see what is great about it but it isn't a mood I visit often (not the biggest fan of pseudo Cabaret music). It's existence sorta anchors my appreciation of her earlier stuff, making me feel I'm not just doting over a Sandie Shaw record.
Watching her on Tom Snyder years ago made me appreciate what a great interview she was. She can be quite a presence.
I've heard the comeback stuff but don't own too much of it. I see what is great about it but it isn't a mood I visit often (not the biggest fan of pseudo Cabaret music). It's existence sorta anchors my appreciation of her earlier stuff, making me feel I'm not just doting over a Sandie Shaw record.
Watching her on Tom Snyder years ago made me appreciate what a great interview she was. She can be quite a presence.
12/19/07 @ 17:27
Comment from: general slocum [Member]
Well, I agree with Big Steve that a singer either gets you or doesn't. I happen to be a fan of a number of "non singers" like Lou, Dylan, Patty Smith, Nico - hell I like Gary Numan. With Faithfull, she veers too much toward some cross of Joan Baez and Broadway for my taste. But her music that is less that way, works for me sometimes. I think you would agree that her lack of voice probably isn't in itself the thing that drives you away. I think she's a bit self congratulatory in her demureness. Actory. But good as an actor, so there's that. I understand your lack of enthusiasm. Of the non singers noted above, she is probably my least favorite.
12/19/07 @ 21:47
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
General, the clearness of your vision is appreciated - as always.
12/19/07 @ 21:51
Comment from: geo [Member]
I like the album ok, particularly the title cut which plays the eigth note phrase F-G-A-F-G-A-D-E over and over. The little repeat of three notes gives it a shifting harmonic and rhythmic feel that releases nicely when it moves to the chorus. I also like how she drops down in the chorus, lower in register than the second half of the verse. I don't mind her croak; it has a sincerity that isn't overwhelmed by her grand dame theatricality. Not great in and of itself, but nice when coupled with the right song like Broken English. BigSteve mentioned that this might be the same band as the Grace Jones records. They were both honchoed by a guitarist named Barry Reynolds who had a hand writing the originals interspersed with the covers on both Broken English and the Compass Point Grace Jones records, but the other players on the Marianne Faithfull record are nowhere near as great as the guys on the Grace Jones stuff, especially Sly and Robbie, but really every guy on there. I really like the disco/reggae feel that these albums mined, but I think if Marianne had gotten the full Grace Jones production treatment, her record would've been better. Neither of them were much in the way of singers, but Grace comes off as a little too put on for me to really appreciate. But damn I love how great those Compass Point records sound.
12/19/07 @ 23:26
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
The Grace records are great (and neatly collected now on a double CD, very recommended), but the Sly & Robbie rhythm section makes sense with Grace's accent and dancefoor focus. Pull up to my bumper indeed. I don't know that it would have worked with Faithfull. I was thinking yesterday that there's something very European about Fathfull, which I think some people may find off-putting (though Grace has her boulevadier side too).
Remember when Chris Blackwell tried to get Sly & Robbie into the studio with James Brown? He walked out shortly into the sessions, claiming they "couldn't play." Damn.
Remember when Chris Blackwell tried to get Sly & Robbie into the studio with James Brown? He walked out shortly into the sessions, claiming they "couldn't play." Damn.
12/20/07 @ 06:54
Comment from: michael k [Member]
In the late 80's, I worked for a while in a record store outside Philadelphia that some of my fellow townspeople might be familiar with, Plastic Fantastic in Ardmore. The place was owned by a rather (ahem) eccentric guy who used to pull stunts to get a rise out of shoppers. I recall one Friday night around Christmas when the store was packed and he decided to put Marianne Faithfull's "Why'd Ya Do It?" on the in-house stereo and said "watch this". If you’re familiar with the lyrics of the song will understand the shocked looks on the faces of the moms who were shopping with their kids. I had never heard the song before he played and I stood behind the counter dumbstruck that he would play that in front of all of these people.
I know that this doesn’t really have anything to do with this topic, however it’s always the first thing that comes to mind whenever I hear Marianne Faithfull’s name.
I know that this doesn’t really have anything to do with this topic, however it’s always the first thing that comes to mind whenever I hear Marianne Faithfull’s name.
12/20/07 @ 08:06
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
BigSteve, that's one hell of a James Brown anecdote! Was this during his 'boat-smokin' years?
12/20/07 @ 09:53
M.F. does a really haunting and lovely version of Dylan's "I'll Keep It With Mine" on her Strange Weather album (1987).
Count me in as a fan of the tune Broken English. I especially enjoy the band's tastefully understated playing on that track in addition to her raspy vocals.
12/20/07 @ 10:11
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I'm finding these comments extremely helpful. I must say, I'm thrilled that Grace Jones has entered the discussion. I thought she and Faithfull had something in common. She's another one I don't really get, but I have a better sense of what's appealing to fans of her records with Sly and Robbie.
12/20/07 @ 10:19
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
The JB/Sly & Robbie thing was apparently in 1980, according to some quick googling. I was recalling the Godfather's side of the story, which was probably in Rolling Stone or something. I remember thinking at the time that his band was actually highly skilled jazz players for the most part, and that he probably couldn't deal with the Jamaican approach. Here's what I found from the other side:
“I told James to fuck off because James was handling people like dog,” the gregarious Robbie would later say. “He was a bully. We were supposed to reach the studio for a 2 o’clock session but James never come til 6 or 7 in the evening. And when he come he want everything to be now, now, now. So when I tell him “look James, I don’t know how you handle people in the States but fuck you don’t come and handle us like this. I tell him he must have respect for people. I stop the session and tell we play no more.”
“I told James to fuck off because James was handling people like dog,” the gregarious Robbie would later say. “He was a bully. We were supposed to reach the studio for a 2 o’clock session but James never come til 6 or 7 in the evening. And when he come he want everything to be now, now, now. So when I tell him “look James, I don’t know how you handle people in the States but fuck you don’t come and handle us like this. I tell him he must have respect for people. I stop the session and tell we play no more.”
12/20/07 @ 10:56
In the late 80's, I worked for a while in a record store outside Philadelphia that some of my fellow townspeople might be familiar with, Plastic Fantastic in Ardmore. The place was owned by a rather (ahem) eccentric guy who used to pull stunts to get a rise out of shoppers. I recall one Friday night around Christmas when the store was packed and he decided to put Marianne Faithfull's "Why'd Ya Do It?" on the in-house stereo and said "watch this". If you’re familiar with the lyrics of the song will understand the shocked looks on the faces of the moms who were shopping with their kids. I had never heard the song before he played and I stood behind the counter dumbstruck that he would play that in front of all of these people.
That's a great story, Townsman Michael K. I wonder if that place is still there. Whenever I'm in that area along Lancaster Ave., I've seen a record store there that I've never gone in there. I forget the exact location, but I wonder if it's the same place.
Anyway, what I didn't mention in my post yesterday is that "Why'd Ya Do It?" is the song that turned me on to her as well. When I was still living in Hoboken, a friend of a former roommate came by one day and played it for me when he saw that the CD (the Faithfull compilation) was on the living room table. Afterwards, I played the Joe Jackson collaboration I mentioned before for him. Luckily, though it was his CD, I got to keep it for a while longer and made a copy of it.
12/20/07 @ 11:16
Comment from: michael k [Member]
"Plastic" is no longer around, however that eccentric owner and his pets have opened a new place that (among other things) focuses on vinyl - "Gold Million Records" also on Lancaster Ave (Bryn Mawr I think). And two of the cooler guys to ever work there (Dave and Mike) have a cool vinyl/CD store in Berwyn called "Shady Dog Records" (http://www.shadydog.com/). I hope it's ok to plug their store here, I have no financial tie-in there, but they are friends.
12/21/07 @ 10:49
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