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OK, Asking for Clarity Regarding Keith Richards Is a Dangerous Proposition
In the Comments from our Keith Richards' Most Memorable Guitar Solos thread, Townsman Dr. John responds to my noting the similarities between the slide guitar solo in "Let it Bleed" and any number of solos Keef would play on Chuck Berry covers, such as "Carol", with the following:
Uh, I'm not hearing any sluggish Chuck Berry riffs in the solo to "Let It Bleed." In fact, it's rather fluid and acts as a call and response to Jagger's improvised vocals at the end of the song.
I'm starting to worry a bit about the growing disconnect between the imaginary Stones you're hearing in your head and the Stones EVERYONE ELSE hears.
Or to put it another way, listen without prejudice.
Don't worry, Townspeople, my skin is thick enough to withstand this attack on my character. More importantly, thankfully, I have digital copies of both "Let it Bleed" and "Carol" handy, which I trust will enable me to prove the FACTS supporting my comparison. I have posted the songs and my clarification on the next page, where I ask you to listen to the solos, in particular, and clarify whether I or Dr. John is the one listening without prejudice. In advance of your support, Dr. John and I thank you.
Follow up:
The slide guitar solo on "Let it Bleed" in question begins at the 3:42 mark.
The Rolling Stones, "Let it Bleed"
Now check out the Get Your Ya-Ya's Out version of "Carol", and pay close attention to the solo, beginning at 1:25, and Keef's call and response with Mick, from 3:05 through the end.
The Rolling Stones, "Carol"
One thing that comes to mind, beside the fact that Keef's solos on "Carol" suck, is "Let it Bleed" is structured along the lines of the chorus of "Carol". Take the 8 bars that make up the chorus of the Chuck Berry song and see if you don't find a lot of overlap with "Let it Bleed". Before you jump down my throat for stating the obvious, consider that the obvious, in this case, is a FACT. This in itself is no great revelation, but it may help to clarify what I was hearing.
Now, check out the solos. Richards, like his mentor, Berry, starts his typical solo in any song structured along these lines with that exaggerated double-stop. Go to the 1:30 mark in "Carol", if you don't know what double-stop lick I'm talking about. Fair enough, no? I think we can agree that this is a FACT.
OK? On the second go-round of this solo, beginning at 1:42, after Richards has shot his meager wad of descending country-influenced harmony playing (in the Berry vein, it goes without say), Keef leans heavily on that double-stop device. He spends about 10 seconds on this before climbing higher and attempting to find new life in the pentatonic scale. Within 2 seconds, that attempt is aborted and he rides out the rest of the solo dicking around with the double-stop. FACT.
Before you think I'm criticizing this approach to soloing, please note that I strongly identify with Keef's plight. As a young guitarist I leaned heavily on the lessons of one of rock's greatest guitar players, the lesson that When in doubt and challenged by one's sausage fingers, start bending the hell out of that double-stop! My bandmates can attest to how challenged I find myself to this day and how frequently I try to "cool" my way out of a musical dead end by brazenly riding a double-stop until the vocals re-enter.
All right, now let's turn our attention back to the solo in "Let it Bleed". For nearly 18 seconds, beginning at the 3:42 start of the solo, he rides out that most basic of double-stops. Then at the second go-round, beginning around 4:00, he plays that loopy variation on the double-stop that he rides to glory in the second go-round of "Carol". Can't you hear the similarities, Dr. John? And again, I'm not pointing this out to criticize his lack of creativity but only to support my initial assertation that the solo you find memorable in "Let it Bleed" is right in line with the solo he plays on "Carol". They say you can't argue with the FACTS. What say you now, Good Doctor?
I wish I had the bootleg of a wasted Keef guesting with Rockpile in D.C. in the early '80s. I think it's from his junked-out New Barbarians phase. He practically mainlines that double-stop over the course of the Chuck Berry cover they play. I think it's "Carol". Andyr would know. 2000 Man probably has that bootleg too and could confirm.
In closing, did I poke a little fun at the particular solo you found memorable? Certainly! But I accept your suggestion as I hope you will now accept my supporting evidence of the tried-and-true nature of Keef's solo in "Let it Bleed".
27 comments
Compared with "Let It Bleed," "Carol" has:
Twice as many notes
A completely different guitar tone
No call and response: in fact Richards seems oblivious to Jagger's singing, playing right over top of him.
A different use of double stops. In "carol" they are the "body" of the guitar solo, whereas in "Let It Bleed" they are used to punctuate each phrase.
Sure, Richards is influenced by Berry, but "Let It Bleed" is his own musical creation, not some pale imitation. Besides what rock guitar player hasn't been influenced by Berry? There are many other guitar players you could criticize, why Richards?
To get back to the issue of "criticizing" Keef, the only criticisms I mean to to dish out, if any, are reserved for anyone failing to acknowledge that, generally, spotlight guitar solos are not Keef's bag.
these two solos bear only slight similarities to my ears.
I agree that the live Carol solo is pretty lame. Remember in that movie where Chuck Berry instructs Keith without mercy, revealing that Keith had been playing the lead lick wrong for decades?
Keith is playing slide on Let It Bleed and regular guitar on Carol. The techniques used are completely different for each method. What Mr Mod is calling a double stop is not possible with a slide.
My friend, I would hope that no one's called bullshit on that particular point because they knew I was talking about the cluster of notes and the riffs that he's playing in each song. You can't tell me that, slide or no slide, one tone or another, amount of notes or not, he's playing almost exactly the same style - HIS signature style - on these songs. It's not like he picked up the slide and started playing in a new style. He still played his little Chuck Berry blocks of notes with the same rhythmic approach.
Hrrundi, you've been around for a very long time, can you please validate THAT MUCH of what I'm getting at without getting the Pince Nez stuck in your craw?
However I love Dave Edmunds' introduction of Keef - his voice sounds just like Nigel Tuffnel
"I'd like to introduce a very special guest" vs "I've been working with this for a half and hour"
Really. Well that's what I thought at first. But when I came up with an actual guitar solo (one that doesn't "blend" into the song as so many of Richards's lead lines do) that adds color to the song and makes me like the song more than if it weren't there, you replied:
"You mean when he plays the same sluggish Chuck Berry licks he plays on songs like "Carol"? If that's what memories are made of, who am I to argue? Thanks for throwing another memory into the hat. Who else is holding onto a memory?"
That's not being critical? And by the way you were being pretty condescending to my good faith attempt to answer your
question. Lastly, I feel few will agree with you. Better turn off the imaginary Stones in your head.
As Mick sang, "It's only rock n roll..."
Mr. Mod, what solo's by anyone are as memorable as Sympathy for the Devil?
I can easily think of a dozen memorable guitar solos by a lot of guitar greats and not so greats, in a fluid, jamming sense (eg, Jimmy Page and George Harrison, both of whom nevertheless could structure great, memorable solos). Richards' strength - and the strength of Stones guitar work - is in the rhythm playing and riffs. One of the things I love most about the Brian Jones-era Stones is that the songs were arranged clearly, so that when there was a humble solo section, Keith could deliver. As the band took a more laissez-faire approach to recordings, there seemed to be "openings" for some instruments or instruments to do...something. Hence, Bobby Keyes (sp?) might get the call to solo.
bootleg! Keef is awful on that song.
Either really stoned, or just fell out
of a coconut tree.
BTW: I always thought Dave Edmunds made
a huge mistake in introducing him as
Keith Richard. I later realized that
there are early albums where he is
listed as Richard instead of Richards.
Somewhere along the line an "S" got
added!!!???
Chickenfranks.
One thing we do agree on is that Keith is not really a lead player, as the live clip of Sympathy you posted proves. I was wracking my brain trying to come up with a solo you would rate highly, but all I could come up with were parts that made the song in question (like Connection) but were not exactly solos.
What IS it about that Sympathy solo though? I mean, I can play those notes. There's nothing especially advanced about the fingerings. But it's not the same thing. The original is just on fire.
What's at issue? Did the solo in 'Let it Bleed' write you one of those offlist e-mails protesting your comparison to the solo in 'Carol'?
then there are solos where the player sort of relies on his muscle memory first, and may only have a sketchy idea of a beginning, middle and end to the solo.
the "carol" thing definitely falls in the latter category. but the "let it bleed" solo, i think is closer to the former. while it may have only taken a few takes because it's pretty easy to execute, it's an idea, conceived in the studio, and meant to be appropriate for the vibe of the song.
and for god's sake, they're really not appropriate comparanda at all...on so many levels.
I still wanna know who played the solo in "Honky Tonk Woman." If that was Keith, it's another high-water mark for him. In general, however, I think Keith's great contribution to the Rock guitar vocabulary was his understanding of when *not* to play. His current trenchcoat-squat-strum technique kind of takes this principle to its absurd extreme, but back when it was fresh -- and used sensibly -- it was almost revolutionary. We could all use a bit more of that in our guitar-playing lives, double stops or no.
Speaking of which, Stones trivia guys around here know much more than me, but is the story known as to why there's no guitar solo in Satisfaction? I mean, whose idea that was and so on?
Besides what rock guitar player hasn't been influenced by Berry?
I think I can state with relative certainty that my guitar style has very little to do with that of Chuck Berry's. I never learned how to play pinky rock. In addition, I'll bet there are plenty of guitarists out there who a more or less Berry-free.
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