Spanish Tony.

Gerard Malanga

Yoko Ono

John Oates.

Pamala Des Barres

Dr. Landy.

Rodney Bingenheimer.

Nancy Spungen.

Allen Klein.

Great suggestions, so far! I'm afraid Townsmen Berlyant and Christian will object to the posting of Eugene Landy's name here. There's probably more to admire on that album he cowrote with Brian than we're willing to credit.

May I suggest someone who had some minor achievements in rock before, sadly, cementing his legacy as a hard-partying rock hanger-on: Harry Nilsson.

Great suggestions, so far! I'm afraid Townsmen Berlyant and Christian will object to the posting of Eugene Landy's name here. There's probably more to admire on that album he cowrote with Brian than we're willing to credit.

He actually wasn't a half-bad lyricist, at least if you're willing to consider the '88 s/t solo album. Plus, he also helped save Brian's life. Unfortunately, though, he loveed to hog the spotlight and worse yet, he isolated Brian from his friends and family and wrote a will to ensure that he got his money as well. So in essence, he stole from him liberally during the '80s and early '90s until he was taken to court and forced to surrender his share in any of Brian's songwriting and to turn over Brian's money back to him as well. Still, I think he should be credited for the stuff he did write. He's an excellent candidate for "best rock leech", though, esp. if you see him in his shades and what not in the late '80s and early '90s on TV. Thimking that you're the rock star is, in my mind at least, what should qualify you.

Anyway, my pick is Mickey Leigh (Joey Ramone's brother).

Danny Sugarman.

Ron Wood, post "tattoo you". :-)

Sat, great suggestions but you've violated the two-in-one post rule. We'll let you slide this time as a learning tool for newcomers to our Last Man Standing threads. The rule is, only one entry per Comment.

Come on, lurkers, I KNOW you're aware of a rock leech in our midst! Such as...May Pang.

Berlyant, you're insane. For the record, I *love* Brian Wilson -- but that 80s solo album is a fly-blown, sticks-to-the-side-of-the-bowl-no-matter-how-many-times-you-flush, corn- and peanut-studded, what-the-fuck-did-I-eat-last-night, nosehair-burning, Indian-food-and-7-11-taquitos turd from one end to the other. Where it isn't sunk by lousy songwriting (*including* those bathetic lyrics you love), it's deep-sixed by the most godawful 80s production this side of a George Michael solo album.

In short: I respectfully disagree with you!

Col. Tom Parker

Don Letts

Hrrundi, Col. Tom got Elvis all those sweet movie deals! Oh...right.

Collective entry, which is allowed within the rules of the game, if I'm not mistaken: The Memphis Mafia.

Legs McNeil.

Garfunkel.

Hate(really) to disagree wit you BIGSTEVE, but I love Oates. I feel he HAS contributed.

However, if you're gonna say Oats, ya gotta say Garfunkel.

How bout:
Kato Kaelin?

Terry Melcher?

Jay Seabrig?

I think Landy is a Rock Leech because a) didn't he just help himself to those co-write credits? and b) he clearly viewed Brian as his meal ticket.

Re-reading the JaBru thread from earlier this week, it occurred to me, had Jagger been life-coaching Brian instead of Landy, the poor guy might've gotten the nerve to tell his cousin where to stick it.

Can someone make actual contributions in terms of songwriting, bandleading and the like, but still be a leech? I'm thinking of John Phillips. Has Ray Manzarek's decades of leeching off of Jimbo's legacy negated his actual, considerable contributions to the Doors' music?

Who's Jay Seabrig, Shawnkilroy? That name's familiar. Terry Melcher actually produced some great records, but he does seem to cut close to the suspect territory occupied by another Beach Boys hanger-on, Van Dyke Parks.

Kato is not a ROCK leech, is he? He was an OJ leech. Let's not include the man in any more bad company than he deserves.

Oats, your questions about John Phillips and Ray Manzarek are EXCELLENT! I thought similar things last night about Ray. He's a Legacy Leech. You're onto something regarding Papa John!

Gee, all John Phillips did was make a groundbreaking first solo record, write hits for the Mamas and Papas, and co-organize the historic Monterey Pop festival.

I think you're judging him on the company he keeps. Can he help it that he knew a lot of famous people? Besides his autobiography is massively entertaining. Let's not get too catty here.

Jay Sebring was Jim Morrisson's hair stylist who was killed by The Manson Family.

I was just making an abstract joke about famous LA homicides and scenesters. (Melcher, Sebring, Kato)

If OJ would have put out a rap record in '95, that shit would have gone through the roof.

I got you now, Kilroy! My bad, as the kids say.

Dr. John, we'll put your defense of John Phillips under consideration. This is a living document. I wouldn't want anyone thinking they can't trust a "Papa John" in their rock community.

Hey Sat - I sent you e-mail about Rome. We leave tomorrow - any suggestions of good pasta places to eat at?

Linda McCartney

Andyr, we've even had great meals at highway rest areas in Italy. One simple piece of advice: steer clear of ANY food establishment within a 2-block radius of the big tourist attractions. The prices will be higher, the waitstaff will be patronizing, and the food won't be as good. Don't even buy a soda from one of those places if at all possible. You'll start to feel like an angry American when they hit you with a $5 charge for a lukewarm, 6-oz Diet Coke.

Go where The People go. If there are people outside waving you in, paying you too much attention, that's a bad sign. Real Italians provide tremendous goods once you're in their establishment but are "laid back" when it comes to immediate service. If they're waving you in the door, they're probably not able to focus on delivering the goods.

Most importantly, guard your brisket! Have fun. We're jealous.

Andyr, one of the best meals of our entire 18 days in Italy was at Ristorante Cantina del Vecchio on Via dei Coronari near Piazza Navona. Highlights here were the squid, the anchovy appetizer, the shrimp with avocado, chicken with olives entree and the veal with mayonaisse. We have since sent two sets of friends there and they gave it rave reviews as well.

oh fuck. i forgot about the rome thing.

you're right around the corner from piazza farnese, which is right near the "perspective tunnel" and my favorite place for a heaping bowl of pasta.

to get to both, face palazzo farnese. to the left of the palazzo a road runs parallel to its MAIN facade (if there was no piazza it would be the road that runs in in front of the palazzo).

go down that narrow street.

to your left, a half a philly bock in, you will see a restaurant on a triangular corner. the restaurant itself is triangular, in shape. it's dark. go in, sit down, smile courteously, and if they don't serve you right away, be polite but tell an employee you'd like to eat.

they'll help you.

when you're done, get back on the same street. on the other side of the street, just a ways up from the restaurant, you will see a palazzo with sculpture on the exterior and a cream white facade. this is palazzo spada. opportunities to see borromini's trompe l'oeil tunnel are fleeting. if the gate is open, just walk in, go about 25 ft. and look to your left. you'll see it there. when the Carabinieri tell you to leave, don't object, just explain that you did not know it wasn't open to the public.

i can't remember the name of the restaurant i'm recommending. the sign was tiny. but, man, it's the best, i'm telling you. home made pasta, not too al dente, not too cooked. it's divine.

the best gelato is at tre scalini, on piazza navona. it's on the same side as st. ignazio, the big church, whose facade is also by borromini.

enjoy!!!

ciao!

art

mod, i didn't forget about the one-sy, rule. the Ron wood suggestion was really just a joke. don't you remember all the great things keef says about his contributions to "dirty work"?

Mod, I'm waiting to hear the verdict on John Philips. If my argument about his cultural worth is deemed unacceptable, then I will have no choice but to nominate for rock leech, Brian Jones.

Dr. John, I do think that, putting his awesome hat into the mix, Papa John did more to contribute to rock 'n roll than Andrew Loog Oldham, who would be one of rock's great footnotes if not for that "Loog" name. I will agree to strike John Phillips' name from this list of Known Rock Leeches and Hangers-on.

Sid Vicious

Sid may be the best one yet! While we're on Johnny Rotten/John Lydon's list of hangers-on, how 'bout that Jeanette Lee - I think that was her name. She was part of PiL for the first few albums, although she didn't play music or seem to do much of anything else. Is that her on the cover of The Flowers of Romance? Yyyyeeeoowwwwssssah!

Justice has been served!

Mike Love

Next time I need a restaurant recommendation, remind me to say 'and hold the art history lesson.'

Also I nominate Leggy Mountbatten.

Clive Davis.

Wolfie Van Halen. Couldn't even get through a tour!

leggy mountbatten was their manager!

still it's funny to imagine him, so thanks for the memories, BigSteve. sorry if my detailed directions were inapropriate content for the thread. i lost andyr's email...heh heh. but believe me, those are the easiest directions to the places he asked about (the restaurant, and the trompe l'oeil tunnel). street names change too quickly in rome, but the names of the buildings and the people who made them don't.

what about ... as much as i hate to say it ... the way Lester Bangs began to cling to the Clash?

Bez.

Dr. John, shortly after having downed a plate of justice, wrote:

Mike Love

What did you do, Dr., spit up that serving of justice? Mike Love was KEY to the success of The Beach Boys. I'm completely serious about this. As limited as his talents were, he was the only guy capable of reaching out to the audience and the only guy who wouldn't look like a Ken doll if you yanked his pants down. OK, Dennis had some equipment down there as well, but he couldn't drum. Without Mike Love, The Beach Boys are a better yet equally faceless version of The Association.

Cue the impassioned defense of the Carl and the Passions album!

The last 40 years of Dick Clark

King Ron, THAT'S a good selection!

I've been thinking we're missing some members of the San Francisco scene. That's never been my scene, though. I don't want to implicate Bill Graham or Mountain Girl. Do the Hell's Angels qualify collectively?

Truman Capote.

How about Owsley?

If we're going to admit Dick Clark, how can we leave out Don Kirshner?

Or Wolfman Jack?

GE Smith

Big Steve - when the Mr. Mod started fishing for a grouper out Fishermans Wharf way, Owsley 'Bear' Stanley popped into my head for a brief minute since he be's famous yet unmusically inclinated and all...but then I immidgetly dismissed that thought.

I mean, without Owsley, there would not have been much of anything that distinguished San Francisco from anywhere's elst across the U.S. of A. There would have been no: "I know what I will do. I will move to San Francisco and join a rock and roll band, because all the bands live together"

He effectively bankrolled the Warlocks/G.D. from the acid tests up through the wall of sound...he more or less INVENTED professional sound reinforcement - the first P.A. that the Dead regularly gigged with was HIS HOME STEREO fer chrissakes! Plus he apparently knew his way around Hoffman's kitchen and shared a lot of baked goods with the downtrodden...If anything, the SF scene was following in his wake, not the other way around...

Bottom line the dude didn't seem to give a flying hinder du rodent for anything but four squares a day of red red meat, pure crystalline sound at max volume, and light shows that didn't require anything to be plugged in and turned on but your own damn self...

Big Steve, based on the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I most respectfully demand that you strike your nomination of Bear as a rock and roll leech and overall suckup, stat, Sir!

As long as I'm protesting, I've got a couple of more defenses to spew. There are a brace of nominations of people who can definitely be criticised for being more famous for being famous than for their music. But I think to be a classifed a rock and roll leech, it has to be a conscious effort to live like a 'sonically-nourished remora' despite a complete lack of personal talent.

First: Harry Nilsson has been tagged. Certainly his most remembered career highlight is spending a good part of a year hammering down gin with John. Still, I know regardless of anything else I had planned, if John Lennon wanted to do out drinking, hell yes I'd buy the lad a pint or two...and so what if it goes on for a month or six...

Nilsson had been working for years as a songwriter before he got his 'big break' by being name-checked TWICE in a Beatles news conference...

There was already a body of work, and his best was yet to come. 'Me and My Arrow', 'My Old Desk', and 'Mourning Glory Story', with the right breaks, all could have been hits before the Beatles kicked him out of obscurity. The songs that did become hits - 'One', 'Everybodys Talkin', 'Without Her' , 'Without You', 'the Moonbeam Song', Coconut, 'Jump Into The Fire' - jeez I'm going on here like Mike Damone - are impeccably crafted both in content and performance.

And Nilsson Schmillson is a classic ALBUM - a unified collection - PERIOD. So the guy dropped off the radar and most of his stuff is long forgotten. I guess now he's properly classified in that group of people from Durward Kirby to Paris Hilton who are 'famous for being famous', but only because most of his best craftsmanship was never intended as popular music. If you count yourself among those who would vote 'aye' to relegate Nilsson to leechhood, please withhold your judgment til you pick up 'Personal Best' or the tribute 'For the Love of Harry...' and spin it a few times.

And I also want to cast a dissenting vote for (or against, however that works) GE Smith. The guy is a professional sideman. You can't criticise him for taking calls for a few high profile union-scale jobs! He's like an iceberg - 99% of the real music this guy plays is invisible. He's tagged here because the 1% you DO see sinks ships and DeCaprio dies, metaphorically speaking...

Check his Wikipedia. Most of it's not as flashy as SNL but the feller literally reeks of guitaristic Mandom! '52 Telecatser for his 11th birthday? That's GUITAR baby!

Ok, I'll withdraw Owsley. I put him in the same 'dealer to the stars' bag as Spanish Tony, but he supposedly gave most of his acid away instead of selling it.

Other possible candidates for SF scene leeches might be Jann Wenner, or Mickey Hart's dad, who managed the Dead in the 70s, mostly by stealing all their money (as you can guess from my previous suggestions, I think managers are rock leeches as a rule ... and I haven't even mentioned Don Arden or Sharon Osbourne yet).

I know, I know, only one name per post.

king ron is right on about nilsson. i would've also railed against his nomination had i noticed it.

but BigSteve's owlsley suggestion is a good one. the best hangers on always come equipped with some device that gets them to the inner sanctum. in owlsley's case, it was the trips.

BigSteve, i know you think managers are rock leeches, but i've known many a hard working manager whose efforts were always belittled by their bands. i'd hate to think of those guys as being termed leeches. alot of them really believed in their acts.

and the dj / mc? if we're going to allow people like dick clark, wolfman jack, and kirshner, people who worked hard to bring rock to its audience, then we must also nominate....

murray the k, who was far more pathetic than Clark, Kirsh (who wrote songs, too) and Jack, i think.

i agree about GE, too. much as i hate 'im, he's a musician, and a real contributor to h&o.

It's true that saying rock managers 'as a rule' are leeches is going too far. The Allen Kleins of the world get all of the press. Saturn knows more about the biz than I do, but it's too bad that being hard-working and believing in the band is no guarantee of competence, but that makes sense for a career where on the job training is the only possible preparation. And incompetence doesn't earn you leech status.

Has anyone mentioned Kosmo Vinyl yet? He's kind of a benign leech, a man of no discernable talent besides enthusiasm.

Kosmo is an AWESOME suggestion!

Kosmo Vinyl is a great one, BigSteve.

King Ron, your defense of GE Smith and Nilsson work for me. When I get the time, I'll strike their names from the record.

I think we need more debate about Owsley. I was thinking of nominating Ken Kesey for the same reasons. I'm not a big fan of the San Francisco sound, so I'm not so sure their turning on a bunch of folkies to acid and amplification was a good thing, but it was a significant thing. So maybe these guys don't belong.

Spanish Tony stays at the top of this list! END OF DISCUSSION regarding him.

Leeches are somewhat different from hangers-on, I would think. If you have something to contribute, and your influence is not destructive, or at least if your effect in sum is positive. you're probably not a leech. Kosmo Vinyl may have been on the Clash's payroll for no real reason, but they liked having him around, and he's friends with Mick Jones to this day (and I believe married to Pearl Harbour?).

Bruce Thomas was apparently such a black hole of negativity that EC considered him a leech that had to be sacked, but it's hard to deny the excellent bass playing. Michael Clarke played the same role in the original Byrds, but he was just a passable drummer, so it's a judgement call.

As far as groupies and girlfriends, did they suck the life out of musicians, or did their sucking boost confidence and contribute in some way to the music? I've been reading that book that came out last year about the making of Exile on Main St. Allen Klein's greed and mania for control forced the Stones into exile, but the result was the greatest r&r album (EP?) ever. Everyone in the book agrees that Spanish Tony was irredeemably vile, but would a sober Keith have made such a dark masterpiece? Anita von Pallenberg, leech or muse?

Chas Chandler kept Hendrix's money and basically worked him to death. Producer/manager deserving of our thanks for guiding him in the studio and breaking him in the marketplace? Or did he just break him and keep the dough?

Murry Wilson abused his sons and talked them into signing away the rights to their recordings, but genius is sometimes born out of an unhappy childhood. Do we blame him or thank him for stoking the cauldron from which Pet Sounds etc would emerge.

As usual, shades of grey. If the artist creates better work after freeing himself from the leech, it's a good sign the leech was a true leech (which is why I half seriously suggested Garfunkel). Aretha's was married to the odious Ted White while she created her greatest music. You make the call.

Do famous groupies, like Pamela Des Barres,
count, or is that another category?

good stuff, BigSteve!

in general, i tend to be a little more forgiving than you. i feel that someone has to have contributed absolutely nothing at all while hanging on.

where hendrix was concerned: acc. to "'scuse me while i kiss the sky", it was manager michael jeffrey who did hendrix in, not chas at all.

in either case, i don't see them as "hangers on". they were working, not simply making the scene in some sycophantic way, and basking in reflected glory. hendrix floundered before chas. and although Jeffrey was less than ethical where hendrix's money was concerned, he did *work* to bring that money in.

same with murray wilson. yes, he was a prick. but even brian's own landy-ghost-authored description of murray doesn't deny how important murray was for the beach boys in their formative stages, especially where studio practices were concerned.

Brian's book *does* suggest, however, that Danny Hutton (of Three Dog Night) was quite the Beach Boy's leech. In this case, even though he had a band of his own, he wasn't doing anything for the Beach Boys per se. So maybe he qualifies. But you're right, shades of grey indeed!

even stanley booth, who wrote a book about the stones while becoming a post-Altamont / pre-exile hanger on *produced* something of merit out of that sycophantism by writing a book that sheds light on the stones' milieu. since writing a book is not an easy thing to do, i'll give him a pass.

i thought of nominating marty for the way he strokes The Band in "Last Waltz", but there again, he was at work while he was doing it. So he's not a pure leech.

perhaps monika danneman, the swede with whom Hendrix was hanging when he died, qualifies: she didn't do anything to help him in the larger sense.

also, I don't think Paul Simon made better work after Garfunkel left. But that's in the ear of the listener.

"even stanley booth, who wrote a book about the stones while becoming a post-Altamont / pre-exile hanger on *produced* something of merit out of that sycophantism by writing a book that sheds light on the stones' milieu. since writing a book is not an easy thing to do, i'll give him a pass."

But so too did Spanish Tony. Thus far, I think Truman Capote is in the lead. he was a writer who wrote nothing about the Stones!

"i thought of nominating marty for the way he strokes The Band in "Last Waltz", but there again, he was at work while he was doing it. So he's not a pure leech."

I believe history will judge Last Waltz a" as one of Marty's best films (along with Meas Streets and Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore).

should be "along with Mean Streets..."

The Maharishi.

Yo guys, KIM FOWLEY!!!!

I've got an album of his and I know about The Runaways and Modern Lovers, but he still qualifies.

great stuff dr. j. i forgot about tony's book!
thanks for the support on the capote nomination. so sad to think of such talent gone to waste, and such desperation for fame.

i like the fowley and the maharishi nominations.

had thought of both yesterday, and now i can't remember why i ruled either out.

Kim Fowley is perfect! Not only was he a leech and a hanger on, but he was proud of his 'accomplishment'...if somewhat confused as to why he got wherever it was he got...he's interviewed by Tom Snyder (along with Joan Jett) on the 'Punk' installment of the Tomorrow show DVD reissues. He was perfectly clueless and happy to pose as a punk in order to be interviewed...it was hideous and shameful...Joan Jett was completely inarticulate too - fortunately the DVD is rescued by some great Iggy performances.

"Somebody's been setting fires in my neighborhood!" was his career highlight...

Fowley may be an all-time Rock Leech. Nice work, Geo. The rock community already feels safer thanks to our work.

How about Lou Pearlman, the guy who put together all those boy bands in the 90s and perhaps fittingly ended up indicted for multiple fraud counts?

The category is Rock Leeches. Teen Pop Leeches is a whole nother thing.

I gotta disagree with Kim Fowley. Yeah, that's not easy to say because he's really abrasive and I can understand totally why anyoe would hate him. But he's not a hanger on or a leech. Joan Jett and Lita Ford would have been nothing without him. His influence may not have been good, but he certainly got the doors opened.

Plus, the guy is just all over ultra classic garage one offs, like Papa Ooh Mow Mow, had something to do with Paul Revere and the Raiders and if I remember right, the guy is kind of the muse for the song Teenage Head. Toss in his show on Sirius, which is terrific, and the guy is a champion of fun garage music.

He does appear to be a selfish asshole, but he has seen talent before anyone else knew it was there, and he's a pretty tireless promoter of the music he likes. I don't believe a word he says usually, but I think he's fascinating.

Don't know if I'll get away with this, but I nominate Howard Stern.

He cavorts with rock stars, and seems to promote them on his show. But really, by bringing an all-talk (ie no music) show to rock stations everywhere, he served to undermine the idea of playing music during a sizable chunk of the radio station's day. He seized onto an audience and a station built on rock music, took what he wanted for himself, and just before it was all going to bust, he abandoned them for satellite.

Allen Ginsburg

Stern is a tremendous nomination, Cherguevara. I'm behind you 100%.

For all he did, Gram Parsons was certainly a Stones leech.

Mr. Jammer claims:
For all he did, Gram Parsons was certainly a Stones leech.

I say:
Leave it to Mick and Keef and their ground breaking ways. Fueling their whole alt-brit-junkie-country period by sucking on a leech! Yucky image. And what did Parsons get from them? I never thought, among his odd shortcomings, that being a failure at being a leech could well be one of them. And I'm a fan!

Graham Parsons leeching off the Stones is a good suggestion. It got me thinking: can a band leech off a foreign musical scene? The Stones of the late-70s/early-80s made a big deal about all the time they were spending recording in Jamaica, at Compass Point, if memory serves. There was always talk of them having recorded "over 60 tracks," including contributions from local musicians. Of the probably 300 tracks they recorded down there, how much of a reggae feel actually crept into their sound? What did they have, about one reggae-influenced song per album? You know they were smoking the herb, but was all that talk of recording in Jamaica necessary?

Maybe there was no reggae influence because Compass Point is in the Bahamas.

Pince nez'd!

I think if anyone was the leech it was the Stones, not Parsons. Ry Cooder claimed they jammed with him just long enough to steal slide guitar licks to write songs around, and then they stopped calling (and of course no songwriting credits). The same process led to Mick Taylor splitting the band.

As far as leeching off a studio/scene, isn't that what the Stones tried to do by recording at Chess studios in the 60s?

Damn you, BigSteve! Pince nez accepted.

How 'bout '70s Jerry Brown, when he was hanging out with the LA Mellow Mafia, using Linda Rondstadt as his possible beard?

BigSteve, I agree with you: the Stones got more out of Parsons than Parsons got out of them--they took the entire arrangement for Country Honk from Parsons (with no credit, of course).

I think the list of musical accomplishments of Parsons (Burrito Bros's Gilded Palace of Sin, 2 solid solo albums, and trying to fuse country and rock, something that, using his template, the Eagles took to the bank) would disqulaify him as a leech.

Good point re: actual contributions, Dr. John.

Yes, gents, this is what my impenetrably obtuse humor was circumventing last night! The Stones have all kinds of talent, and I won't go down that road, but they knew a good, fleshy calf with lots of nourishing plasma when they saw it stray by them! (More leech humor, there.)

The Doctor:
I think the list of musical accomplishments of Parsons...would disqualify him as a leech.

This is where I jest with a point. What if he *was* a leech, but was just really bad at it, losing material rather than gaining it? I don't really buy it in this instance, but it is it's own artistic dysfunction.