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Teamwork?
04/18/08 | by Mr. Moderator
Beside "point guard" Marty Balin, do the members of Jefferson Airplane even know they're on the same stage together? Watch Balin try to engage Grace Slick in a give-and-go before Slick drifts off into her own lane. There's only one rock, Grace, no matter how many vocal mics are set up. Paul Kantner checks himself into the game to sing a verse - or is he performing a different song? Compare and contrast the teamwork of this band with that of CSNY in the previous clip.
11 comments
Comment from: general slocum [Member] 
Mod, I don't see where these clips back up yer point. True, Neil's stunning wolfman sideburns sing great back-up, but they can't compensate for his "I've just been hit in the back of the head with a sock full of manure" dazed look during the jam. And your entirely understandable antipathy for Jefferson Airplane, seems not to be illustrated the way you suggest. The generally presence-less and tuneless Slick manages to overcome both, here, IMO. She interacts, emotes, and, darn it, sings! The band looks moderately engaged with each other. In a general likability sense, I'm with you on these clips, but Teamwork seems at least to be in a dead heat, if not actually to go to the Airplane.
04/18/08 @ 07:43
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I slept on it, Slokie, and I'm now seeing the JA clip as teamwork more along the lines of the individual-within-team dynamic of baseball. Each singer's taking his or her turn at bat.
04/18/08 @ 08:06
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
I get the feeling drugs may have been involved in both of these performances.
04/18/08 @ 09:45
Comment from: alexmagic [Member]
I think what the Mod may have been initially – and understandably, because it works – wowed by in the CSN&Y clip is their formation. About a minute and fifty in, they break into their version of the classic Globetrotters Magic Circle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dPjxvHXkk4
04/18/08 @ 10:01
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
Nice comparison!
Good monitors are a key element in teamwork, and I suspect that the Airplane were having a tough time hearing each other that day. But they are to be commended for their perseverance: a complex arrangement with multiple vocal parts and harmonies? I'd say they stick together pretty well. But, yeah, the result is a sort-of falling down mess. The lousy mix has a lot to do with that, too, however.
Mod, I'll go you one further. This isn't teamwork in the individualized baseball sense. This is a game of "best ball" at a corporate golf outing. But it IS teamwork.
With the CSNY clip, it's nice of Neil to give up the lead guitar spot so that that prick on a stick Stills can feel important. Now THAT's teamwork! it's the equivalent of a long lead pass to the right winger, especially in the new era of the legal 2 line pass. And the harmonies are tight....like when the Flyers cycle the puck down low in the power play.
I love Sloke's description of Neil: hit in the back of the head with a bag of turd? wow. that's spot on. And alex, your globetrotters observation made me spit milk out of my nose.
Cole vs. Santana tonight. Thoughts turn to baseball....
Good monitors are a key element in teamwork, and I suspect that the Airplane were having a tough time hearing each other that day. But they are to be commended for their perseverance: a complex arrangement with multiple vocal parts and harmonies? I'd say they stick together pretty well. But, yeah, the result is a sort-of falling down mess. The lousy mix has a lot to do with that, too, however.
Mod, I'll go you one further. This isn't teamwork in the individualized baseball sense. This is a game of "best ball" at a corporate golf outing. But it IS teamwork.
With the CSNY clip, it's nice of Neil to give up the lead guitar spot so that that prick on a stick Stills can feel important. Now THAT's teamwork! it's the equivalent of a long lead pass to the right winger, especially in the new era of the legal 2 line pass. And the harmonies are tight....like when the Flyers cycle the puck down low in the power play.
I love Sloke's description of Neil: hit in the back of the head with a bag of turd? wow. that's spot on. And alex, your globetrotters observation made me spit milk out of my nose.
Cole vs. Santana tonight. Thoughts turn to baseball....
04/18/08 @ 10:26
Comment from: dr john [Member]
It's like comparing football to soccer. CSNY have this macho, look at me while I'm doing a solo, vibe, while the Airplane don't have to look at each other: they know where each person is on the stage.
04/18/08 @ 10:50
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
There may have been bad monitors, but Grace always had intonation problems. And I'm not an Airplane hata. More often than not it's a case of 'it shouldn't work but it just does.' On the other hand if Grace hadn't looked the way she did, I don't think she would have gotten away with that caterwauling plus Buffy Ste Marie tremolo.
04/18/08 @ 11:00
Comment from: andyr [Member]
I haven't looked at the clips yet, but I do want to commend Saturn for his excellent comparisons to Flyers hockey. It feels like 1973-75 all over again
Go Flyboys!
Go Flyboys!
04/18/08 @ 11:28
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
thanks Andyr! i was more proud of my "best ball at corporate golf outing" comparison, however, especially given the airplane's transformation into a starship.
bigsteve, you couldn't be more right about grace's intonation problems!
bigsteve, you couldn't be more right about grace's intonation problems!
04/18/08 @ 13:37
Comment from: mwall [Member]
Several points to be made:
Actually, most of the people who dislike Airplane on this list have yet to come to terms with the Airplane's strengths as a singles band. Every Airplane album contains several notable 2:30-4 minute songs that have as much pop formula as most pop bands of their time.
Live, they were obviously very different. One of the old versions of the Rolling Stone record guide described what they did perfectly: "Live, the band took a lot of chances and consequently weren't always very good, but when they were on, they were awesome." For my money, the best live Airplane is found on the album "Live at the Monterrey Festival."
Therefore, finding a bad clip of the Airplane live is like shooting ducks in a barrel. But as others are saying, this clip shows pretty good interplay between the band under less than optimal sound conditions. Grace sounded much worse other times, that's a fact.
Mr. Mod's comparison to baseball is apt though, I have to admit. Maybe an even better comparison is to the dynamic of jazz, where individuals take long solos, and the melody forms a smaller portion of what's central to the music.
But then, saying that, I would also have to suggest that the Airplane's frequent live failures show how difficult it is for a rock band to take on a jazz-like interplay. As a general rule the Allman Brothers did it with more consistent success.
Actually, most of the people who dislike Airplane on this list have yet to come to terms with the Airplane's strengths as a singles band. Every Airplane album contains several notable 2:30-4 minute songs that have as much pop formula as most pop bands of their time.
Live, they were obviously very different. One of the old versions of the Rolling Stone record guide described what they did perfectly: "Live, the band took a lot of chances and consequently weren't always very good, but when they were on, they were awesome." For my money, the best live Airplane is found on the album "Live at the Monterrey Festival."
Therefore, finding a bad clip of the Airplane live is like shooting ducks in a barrel. But as others are saying, this clip shows pretty good interplay between the band under less than optimal sound conditions. Grace sounded much worse other times, that's a fact.
Mr. Mod's comparison to baseball is apt though, I have to admit. Maybe an even better comparison is to the dynamic of jazz, where individuals take long solos, and the melody forms a smaller portion of what's central to the music.
But then, saying that, I would also have to suggest that the Airplane's frequent live failures show how difficult it is for a rock band to take on a jazz-like interplay. As a general rule the Allman Brothers did it with more consistent success.
04/18/08 @ 14:36
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I'm impressed by the teamwork YOU have shown on these clips. Alexmagic, the Globetrotters are exactly what came to mind as I watched the CSNY clip. Also, my thoughts last night were heavily influenced by my Flyboys. I am totally Flyered up! The only thing that might top it is being at tonight's Phils-Mets game, where I'll be drooling at the sight of two of the most stylish lefthanders in the league, Cole vs Johan. I'm also slated to see tomorrow night's battle of I-95 lefties, especially looking forward to seeing the Last Old, Slop-balling Fantasy Lefty on earth in my lifetime, Jamie Moyer.
04/18/08 @ 14:46
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