There Is Nothing Wrong With This Song!
By hrrundivbakshi on Nov 17, 2008
When I was college, I experienced the wonderful realization that -- with a little effort -- I could actually write songs. Not great ones, but songs that were occasionally not half bad. Catalyzed by my encounters with The Jam's All Mod Cons, Townsmen kcills, Mod, and a few other personal and professional icons of the pop/punk ideal, I began doing this in my spare time, forming a band as so many around me were doing.
One of the groups that convinced me it was possible for mere mortals to write pleasing, interesting music was the dB's. Their Repercussions album is still on my short list of "One Day the World Will Wake Up and Celebrate This LP and the Band That Made It" discs -- and it's one of the reasons why, when I met Chris Stamey a few years ago, the first thing I blurted out was, "you're a National Cultural Treasure."
Anyhow, as a hopeful collegiate songwriter, the one song that rose to the top for me -- across all the Great Bands I was soaking up in those impressionable years -- was "Neverland" by the dB's. I thought then, and continue to think today, that it's the Perfect Pop Song. And the spot (at 2:27 in this newly discovered video) when Gene Holder shoots up the neck to the tonic is one of those shudder-inducing "wait for it" moments that make musical life worth living.
I defy you to find anything wrong with this song. I even dare you to tell me this 26-year-old song sounds dated. You can't. You just can't.
HVB
p.s.: per Mod's request, I add -- do you agree, or ARE YOU AN ASSHOLE?
49 comments
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I also love this song, Hrrundi, but what's your real question? Beside my wife, who can't get by her belief that the dB's sing like pussies, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about this song.
2008-11-17 @ 17:54
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member] 
Sigh. Must everything be a "question" 'round these parts? Okay, I guess I'm saying, in true RTH stylee: this is a perfect pop song. Do you agree, or are you an ASSHOLE?
2008-11-17 @ 18:21
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I think "Big Brown Eyes" is their perfect pop song. This song is simply great - in a great way.
I forgot to add, my wife also doesn't like the band's use of reverb on those tinny voices.
I forgot to add, my wife also doesn't like the band's use of reverb on those tinny voices.
2008-11-17 @ 21:01
Comment from: Al [Member]
I was listening over the weekend to some live dBs show from a couple weeks ago that I downloaded and I basically had this thread myself already because I was thinking they had several really classic pop songs. I was thinking Neverland and Amplifier but at the top I put Big Brown Eyes as well.
Here's possible grist for another thread. What's the greatest two-fer? Gotta figure that the one that has the first two dB's albums, Stands For Decibels and Repercussion is high on the list. I'd put it a notch below the Spotlight Kid / Clear Spot two-fer.
And while I'm praising the dB's, is that a cool band name or what?
Here's possible grist for another thread. What's the greatest two-fer? Gotta figure that the one that has the first two dB's albums, Stands For Decibels and Repercussion is high on the list. I'd put it a notch below the Spotlight Kid / Clear Spot two-fer.
And while I'm praising the dB's, is that a cool band name or what?
2008-11-17 @ 22:06
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
My main beef with the dB's' name - as an editor - is that they stuck that incorrect apostrophe in there. It should be "dbs" - you don't add a comma to make something plural. Really, if I want to get all medical editor on you, I could go one step further and cite the AMA Style Guide's rules against pluralizing abbreviations for units of measure. The band name should have been The dB, which granted, wouldn't have been as good a name but wouldn't have bugged me every time I had to type that useless and incorrect apostrophe while singing the band's praises.
So Al, as for your two-fer question, would you care to clarify the question and even set it up as its own thread? Two consecutive albums? Two consecutive albums actually packaged as a "two-fer?" I don't want to take the spotlight away from Hrrundi's hard-hitting question. It's important he knows that we agree with him on this issue, otherwise he's going to call us assholes.
So Al, as for your two-fer question, would you care to clarify the question and even set it up as its own thread? Two consecutive albums? Two consecutive albums actually packaged as a "two-fer?" I don't want to take the spotlight away from Hrrundi's hard-hitting question. It's important he knows that we agree with him on this issue, otherwise he's going to call us assholes.
2008-11-17 @ 22:21
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
I love the way there's no fancy playing on this track. The 'lead' guitar part is a very simple drony thing. The playing is no more than what was needed for the song. All of the goodness is there in the writing. The arrangement isn't gimmicky at all, something the dB's were capable of.
I can't hear anything happening at 2:27. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but is there some kind of effect on the bass? It doesn't sound natural.
I can't hear anything happening at 2:27. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but is there some kind of effect on the bass? It doesn't sound natural.
2008-11-17 @ 23:52
Comment from: bruinskip [Member]
put this one on singles going steady and it's the weakest cut on the record. i'm just sayin'...
2008-11-18 @ 03:12
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Bruinskip, welcome aboard! As a newcomer to the Halls of Rock, I HOPE this post's host, Hrrundivbakshi, doesn't call you what I fear he's going to call you. I hear what you're sayin', although I'd only agree that half of Singles... is on par or better than this song. Nevertheless, I sense you've found more specific flaws in "Neverland." Feel free to expound.
2008-11-18 @ 08:08
Comment from: general slocum [Member]
The best thing about a pre-advertised "wait for it" moment is when absolutely nothing occurs! No, I hear them droning along right through the end. The whole song is essentially on the "tonic" so there's no tension in getting to it at any given time. To me, it's fine, but I'm not a fan of this style of pop rock. Or, at least, it never gets me too pumped. But I think it's nice that you think it doesn't sound dated. Stick to your guns, old man.
2008-11-18 @ 08:44
Comment from: bruinskip [Member]
no specific flaws per se, just that they manage to out-femme pete shelley, no easy feat. the song's just a bit too precious for my tastes, though the singles reference was engaging in hyperbole -- more impactful than saying the tune would rank no better than 12th of 16, or some such.
as for the anticipated scorn from hrrundivbakshi, i've been called worse...
as for the anticipated scorn from hrrundivbakshi, i've been called worse...
2008-11-18 @ 09:02
Comment from: andyr [Member]
This is a great song - period. At 2:27 I think the bass goes up to a note and hangs on there for a few beats
2008-11-18 @ 09:05
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
The strength I'm seeing among Townspeople this morning is impressive. Keep it up for the full 60 minutes!
2008-11-18 @ 09:25
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
The 'Last Comments' link seems to have disappeared.
2008-11-18 @ 09:28
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
Well, the song is a big, long, circular thing in "E." Slokie's right, there's a whole shitload of "E" going on -- but Holder actually spends very little time there. When he plunks along: D, C#, B while everybody else is whangin' on that big jangle-"E" riff, it creates a significant amount of tension. Normally, the release occurs in the chorus, when we finally get to hear the bass catch up with the band and take our brain-ears to the "E" place they expect to go. But since the "outchorus" is actually a repetition of the verse, that doesn't happen. Will we ever get back to "E"? Will we? Or is this whole song just a big pop cock-tease? Where's that "E"? I *need* it!
Not to worry! Holder swoops up to the high "E" and FINALLY locks it down for a crucially stimulative moment. Urrrgghaaauugh! I swear, the tension/release thing in great song arrangement is sexual.
Not to worry! Holder swoops up to the high "E" and FINALLY locks it down for a crucially stimulative moment. Urrrgghaaauugh! I swear, the tension/release thing in great song arrangement is sexual.
2008-11-18 @ 09:32
Comment from: Oats [Member]
My only problem with this song is that the falsetto "No, Never" backing vocals get annoying by the time of the third chorus. A fine song, but not my favorite dB's number; Superior ones include "Black and White," "Dynamite," "The Fight" "Bad Reputation," "Big Brown Eyes," "Judy," "Happenstance," "We Were Happy There," "From a Window to a Screen," and "Amplifier."
2008-11-18 @ 09:48
Comment from: cdm [Member]
The original question wasn’t “This is a perfect pop song: do you agree or are you an asshole?” It was “There’s nothing wrong with this song: do you agree or are you an asshole?”
Those are two entirely different questions. I agree with the latter but not the former. So I guess that makes me half an asshole.
I only heard a handful of dB’s songs but none of them made me want to hear more. This is the first song of theirs that I thought was pretty deece. Nothing wrong with it, but it’s certainly not strong enough to make it into the Perfect Pop Canon with the likes of Sept Gurls and There She Goes.
On an unrelated note, Hurrdi, while getting psyched for the ACDC show last night, I was listening to Live Wire and it occurred to me that that song is where two of your favorites, ACDC and ZZ Top, intersect. Know what I mean?
Those are two entirely different questions. I agree with the latter but not the former. So I guess that makes me half an asshole.
I only heard a handful of dB’s songs but none of them made me want to hear more. This is the first song of theirs that I thought was pretty deece. Nothing wrong with it, but it’s certainly not strong enough to make it into the Perfect Pop Canon with the likes of Sept Gurls and There She Goes.
On an unrelated note, Hurrdi, while getting psyched for the ACDC show last night, I was listening to Live Wire and it occurred to me that that song is where two of your favorites, ACDC and ZZ Top, intersect. Know what I mean?
2008-11-18 @ 09:53
Comment from: mockcarr [Member]
Chris Stamey is the treasure and you are spooging on a Holsapple song? The bass part carries it after the opening motif, but I'm confused since he flashes an eight-string in one solo scene.
Holsapple has enough great songs that I would really have a hard time honestly rating one out best from among Neverland, Bad Reputation, Black and White, and Big Brown Eyes. But I wouldn't say you were wrong. Nothing I say could be wrong.
New thread "most tension created" in a song, I vote for Sparks by the Who.
Holsapple has enough great songs that I would really have a hard time honestly rating one out best from among Neverland, Bad Reputation, Black and White, and Big Brown Eyes. But I wouldn't say you were wrong. Nothing I say could be wrong.
New thread "most tension created" in a song, I vote for Sparks by the Who.
2008-11-18 @ 10:04
Comment from: cdm [Member]
"New thread "most tension created" in a song, I vote for Sparks by the Who."
Excellent topic. I vote for Liquid Indian by Guided By Voices
Excellent topic. I vote for Liquid Indian by Guided By Voices
2008-11-18 @ 10:35
Comment from: dbuskirk [Member]
If we could get past the whole shtick of their act, I'd say NBRQ's pure pop side is the equal of the db's. I think I like "Ridin' In My Car" more for sustained sunny-sounding pop heartbreak.
2008-11-18 @ 10:45
Comment from: dr john [Member]
Sorry, but I'm not terribly moved. I like the change heading into the chorus, but it bugs me when the chorus is over the same changes as the verse.
The best thing about the db's is the
rhythm section. They make a heroic effort to animate the song.
Best two-fer: Pretty Things, SF Sorrow and Parachute.
Best use of tension in a song: Led Zeppelin, Kashmir.
The best thing about the db's is the
rhythm section. They make a heroic effort to animate the song.
Best two-fer: Pretty Things, SF Sorrow and Parachute.
Best use of tension in a song: Led Zeppelin, Kashmir.
2008-11-18 @ 11:26
Comment from: mockcarr [Member]
Best two-fer Pink Floyd's A Nice Pair- The Piper At The Gates fo Dawn/A Saucerful of Secrets
2008-11-18 @ 11:31
Comment from: mockcarr [Member]
Even better, the Sell Out/Happy Jack two-fer set from the Who.
2008-11-18 @ 11:39
Comment from: general slocum [Member]
The biggest exception to the "same chords for verse and chorus = boring" theory is Iggy's The Passenger. Also, for pop that doesn't travel far but keeps tension perfectly, the Buzzcocks' "Why Can't I Touch It?"
And still, Hrrundivie, I can't find anything at 2:27. It's on E, stays on E, alludes to nothing other than E, and then returns to, yes, E. If that's sexual tension, well... then I never... or you must be a... or some kind of multiple entendre or some such.
And still, Hrrundivie, I can't find anything at 2:27. It's on E, stays on E, alludes to nothing other than E, and then returns to, yes, E. If that's sexual tension, well... then I never... or you must be a... or some kind of multiple entendre or some such.
2008-11-18 @ 11:43
Comment from: dr john [Member]
If you listen closely, the bass slides up at the same time there's a drum roll. It's a cool little musical trick, actually.
2008-11-18 @ 11:48
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Hold tight, BigSteve and others: some elements, like the "Last comments" link, have been temporarily moved. They will be back in action within the next 24 hours along with some ch-ch-ch-changes that we've been working on in The Back Office.
2008-11-18 @ 11:52
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Mistuh Slocum? The bass plays D, C#, B over that outchorus figure, until 2:27, when he shoots up to "E." It's all right there, in front of your ears!
2008-11-18 @ 12:17
Comment from: Oats [Member]
Good Lord, the lab coat shenanigans going on now in this thread make my brain bleed.
As I see it, the secret to a perfect pop song is: It must paradoxically be totally memorable, yet always surprise you in some way every time you hear it. Also, if you can manage to make every single part of your song a great hook, well then you've just perfected perfection.
As I see it, the secret to a perfect pop song is: It must paradoxically be totally memorable, yet always surprise you in some way every time you hear it. Also, if you can manage to make every single part of your song a great hook, well then you've just perfected perfection.
2008-11-18 @ 12:43
Comment from: diskojoe [Member]
It's an OK song, but it doesn't move me like (besides the others that the fellow Townspeople mentioned)the very first song I heard from the Undertones, "It's Going To Happen", which I actually encountered on MTV back in the day.
Mr. Mod, seconds on what 'appended to the Latest Comments button.
Mr. Mod, seconds on what 'appended to the Latest Comments button.
2008-11-18 @ 13:38
Comment from: alexmagic [Member]
Tension songs: Psychotic Reaction does its build-and-release bit in the middle, then does the build again at the end, left unresolved.
CCR's Ramble Tamble pulls a variation on the same trick with that section in the middle that continually revs up for almost four minutes before finally dissolving back into the last verse.
Quasi's "Nothing From Nothing" is 2:44 seconds long, and the first 1:50 is just instrumental build-up to a short verse-verse-title sprint at the end.
CCR's Ramble Tamble pulls a variation on the same trick with that section in the middle that continually revs up for almost four minutes before finally dissolving back into the last verse.
Quasi's "Nothing From Nothing" is 2:44 seconds long, and the first 1:50 is just instrumental build-up to a short verse-verse-title sprint at the end.
2008-11-18 @ 14:03
Comment from: eh [Member]
I'm also going to be a middle-American (or RTHian) and agree down the middle here. The falsetto back is extraneous (though the dBs would never render it to my preference as a legato harmony anyway), but there's nothing wrong with it per se. It is a good song but also not my favorite dB track.
As for the two-fer, I'm gonna vote for "20/20/Look Out!"
As for the two-fer, I'm gonna vote for "20/20/Look Out!"
2008-11-18 @ 14:15
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Trust me, Diskojoe, the "Latest comments" link will be back on the site within the next 24 hours. It and a few other elements you might find missing are currently on a moving van, on a short trip across town. Thanks.
2008-11-18 @ 14:24
Comment from: diskojoe [Member]
No problem, Mr. Mod.
As for "two-fers", I had Happy Jack/Sell Out on vinyl, as well as the Byrds' 1st two albums.
As for "two-fers", I had Happy Jack/Sell Out on vinyl, as well as the Byrds' 1st two albums.
2008-11-18 @ 14:49
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
As for two-fers, how about the two-fer CD packaging of the first two Big Star albums? Better yet may be the two-fer of Move albums I own on vinyl. I'm blanking on the names, but it's the one with the swirly image on one album cover and the band as badly drawn superheroes on the other.
2008-11-18 @ 15:02
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Diskojoe, you have just listed two of my earliest two-fers. The Who one, in particular, continues to be a favorite.
2008-11-18 @ 15:03
Comment from: dbuskirk [Member]
Best Two-Fer: Ann Peebles - I CAN'T STAND THE RAIN / STRAIGHT FROM THE HEART. It's enough to make you forget Al Green.
2008-11-18 @ 15:06
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
Yeah, disko, I had those Who and Byrds twofers on vinyl. And 20/20 reminds me of the two Beach Boys twofers -- Smiley Smile/Wild Honey and Friends/20/20.
In the CD era the recent Brinsley Schwarz twofers are very nice, thankfully keeping that band's work in print.
In the CD era the recent Brinsley Schwarz twofers are very nice, thankfully keeping that band's work in print.
2008-11-18 @ 15:06
Comment from: cdm [Member]
Speaking of Psychotic Reaction, how about 7 Plus 7 Is? The tension builds to an explosion, then a mellow waltz tune.
2008-11-18 @ 15:27
Comment from: diskojoe [Member]
The Move albums that you had on your two-fer Mr. Mod were the 1st album & Shazam.
I forgot about that Big Star two-fer CD, which I have.
How about the Beach Boys' CD two-fer reissues (including the ones that Big Steve mentioned unless he's referring to the Reprise/Brother vinyl ones) that Capitol actually deleted for a while in the late 90s before bringing them back.
I forgot about that Big Star two-fer CD, which I have.
How about the Beach Boys' CD two-fer reissues (including the ones that Big Steve mentioned unless he's referring to the Reprise/Brother vinyl ones) that Capitol actually deleted for a while in the late 90s before bringing them back.
2008-11-18 @ 15:27
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I've got the Beach Boys two-fers on vinyl. The CD Brinsley Schwarz ones are cool too. Two-fers rule! (There must be some stinkers I'm not remembering.)
I've got the two Jeff Beck Group albums individually.
I've got the two Jeff Beck Group albums individually.
2008-11-18 @ 16:17
Comment from: dbuskirk [Member]
Mod Whoops: "Two-fers rule! (There must be some stinkers I'm not remembering.)"
Any that cut off a song to fit the two on one disc. The Collectible label does this frequently...
Any that cut off a song to fit the two on one disc. The Collectible label does this frequently...
2008-11-18 @ 16:52
Comment from: mockcarr [Member]
I'd probably sell that Brinsley Schwartz two-fer if someone wanted it.
2008-11-18 @ 17:33
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
The two-fer that turned me off of Jackson Browne Turde forever was "Late For the Sky" and "For Everyman."
2008-11-18 @ 17:47
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
Maybe someone else has already said it, but that db's tune is not memorable enough to be a perfect pop song.
the fact that there's nothing wrong with it is exactly what's wrong with it.
the fact that there's nothing wrong with it is exactly what's wrong with it.
2008-11-18 @ 20:24
Comment from: 2000 Man [Member]
I like that db's song, but for me to find "that spot" I'd probably need to hear it under better circumstances than my laptop, and I'd do better being more familiar with it. I've only got Like This, and I bought it because I really like Amplifier. Is their stuff still in print?
dr. john, Kashmir seems more like slogging through a bog in Dad's old galoshes to me. There's never a payoff. I'll take Gimme Shelter. The tension builds, then just snaps when Merry Clayton does her thing.
That Big Star twofer is a lotta bang for the buck, but I have to be honest, the first one I thought of was Joe Walsh - The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get / You Can't Argue With A Sick Mind. I remember when I got it I thought that catalog stuff would start coming out as twofers all the time. Guess I was wrong. That's a cool album, though. I'm always surprised how much I like Joe when I get around to playing him.
dr. john, Kashmir seems more like slogging through a bog in Dad's old galoshes to me. There's never a payoff. I'll take Gimme Shelter. The tension builds, then just snaps when Merry Clayton does her thing.
That Big Star twofer is a lotta bang for the buck, but I have to be honest, the first one I thought of was Joe Walsh - The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get / You Can't Argue With A Sick Mind. I remember when I got it I thought that catalog stuff would start coming out as twofers all the time. Guess I was wrong. That's a cool album, though. I'm always surprised how much I like Joe when I get around to playing him.
2008-11-18 @ 21:17
Comment from: hissing fauna [Member]
I agree that there's nothing wrong with the song! but i think Sparky's Dream or Bizzare Love Triangle or Como te Extrano mi Amor are closer to being 'perfect pop songs.'
how exactly is a perfect pop song defined? by the amount of hooks per second?
how exactly is a perfect pop song defined? by the amount of hooks per second?
2008-11-18 @ 22:32
Comment from: cdm [Member]
If we're counting horse racing then what about White City by the Pogues? It's technically about a horse track burning down but that should still count.
2008-11-19 @ 08:52
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