Most Disappointing Collaboration Ever?
By Mr. Moderator on Feb 25, 2010
Sorry to have to do this to you, but recent talk of a Ray Davies-Bon Jovi collaboration on "Celluloid Heroes" made me wonder if there was some video evidence of this highly disappointing collaboration.
Aesthetically, because I know we've got a lot of Kinks fans here, is this the most disappointing collaboration ever, or would it be the collaboration that was determined as the Rock Crime among Rock Crimes of the 20th century, Ja-Bo? Or is there a collaboration that you've found even more disappointing?
I dread your responses.
46 comments
Comment from: shawnkilroy [Member] 
could have been worse.
could have been Lola with will.i.am
could have been Lola with will.i.am
02/25/10 @ 11:03
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Is that for real, shawnkilroy? That may be worse.
02/25/10 @ 11:08
Comment from: dr john [Member]
Steve Howe (Yes) and Steve Hackett (Genesis) collaborated on a record, GTR. That one got the famous review, "SHT"
02/25/10 @ 11:29
Comment from: shawnkilroy [Member]
no, i made that up based on this modern wretched reality. it's scary because it's so believable.
02/25/10 @ 11:29
Comment from: Oats [Member]
Watching this now:
This song is a weirdly okay fit for Bon Jovi, which perhaps proves John Mendelsson's assertion that it's the most grossly overrated of Kinks klassics.
Do you think anyone in the audience really knew who Ray was?
Just so we're clear, Mr. Mod, this is disappointing because Ray has to stoop to playing with these clowns (or, more disappointingly because he thinks they're a good band), not because you thought this would be awesome, but it turns out it's not. Right?
I don't think it's a bad performance, per se, just a dumb one. What's worse: Jon Bon Jovi's faux-Nashville singing accent or Ray's shit-eating grin at the 3:40 mark?
Regarding Richie Sambora's double-neck acoustic guitar: No comment!
This song is a weirdly okay fit for Bon Jovi, which perhaps proves John Mendelsson's assertion that it's the most grossly overrated of Kinks klassics.
Do you think anyone in the audience really knew who Ray was?
Just so we're clear, Mr. Mod, this is disappointing because Ray has to stoop to playing with these clowns (or, more disappointingly because he thinks they're a good band), not because you thought this would be awesome, but it turns out it's not. Right?
I don't think it's a bad performance, per se, just a dumb one. What's worse: Jon Bon Jovi's faux-Nashville singing accent or Ray's shit-eating grin at the 3:40 mark?
Regarding Richie Sambora's double-neck acoustic guitar: No comment!
02/25/10 @ 11:46
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Correct distinction, Oats. I wasn't expecting anything (like Mendelsson, I'm not a huge fan of that song as it is). The disappointment was over the fact that Davies would be dragged out with such a generic band. I don't love Yo La Tengo, but when they backed him at Maxwell's a year or two ago it was heartening on both sides of the equation. This is a vending machine transaction.
02/25/10 @ 11:50
Comment from: dr john [Member]
Then again, "Celluloid Heroes" is overly melodramatic. Perfect for BonJovi.
02/25/10 @ 12:02
Comment from: Oats [Member]
Also, compared to the version on The Kinks' One for the Road -- with endless, bad arena rock solos from Dave and a tone-deaf vocal from Ray -- this rendition is subtle!
02/25/10 @ 12:05
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
Come on now (as Dave Davies once said). Celluloid Heroes is not in the front ranks of great Kinks songs, yes; and it is melodramatic, yes; but the One for the Road version works in the context of the Kinks bid for arena rock grandeur and it is grotesque to suggest that this version, with Bin Jovi's stink all over it, has anything to commend it. Most disappointing collaboration ever? No--I mean, Dylan co-wrote a song with Michael Bolton, for God's sake--but a worthy contender. Anyway, thanks for ruining my day.
02/25/10 @ 12:23
Comment from: Oats [Member]
You decide, Rock Town Hall!
The Kinks, "Celluoid Heroes," 1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch#v=eK4t4k1ZG2g
The Kinks, "Celluoid Heroes," 1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch#v=eK4t4k1ZG2g
02/25/10 @ 12:32
Comment from: eh [Member]
I'm surprised the introduction didn't include "He's the guy who wrote this song. With his other band. They were called 'The Kinks.' In the 60s. Anyway, give him a hand."
I'd like to hear the crowd response if Jon Bon Jovi came out onstage at a Ray show. Maybe they could duet on "Runaway."
Most disappointing? Gonna have to go with MJ and Macca.
I'd like to hear the crowd response if Jon Bon Jovi came out onstage at a Ray show. Maybe they could duet on "Runaway."
Most disappointing? Gonna have to go with MJ and Macca.
02/25/10 @ 12:39
Comment from: shonuffnyesido [Member]
I wonder if ja-bo was more disappointing for bowie fans or stones fans? lol!
02/25/10 @ 12:51
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
A somewhat less self-consciously grandiose version from 1977.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSR7nfn-acs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSR7nfn-acs&feature=related
02/25/10 @ 13:14
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I like Davies' pouffy sleeve and the white trim on the cuffs and collar, misterioso - not to mention the dreaded Ovation acoustic. Despite all that, you're right, that's a much better performance of the song than the other two examples.
The song itself still wears on me a little in the way "American Pie" does: the melodramatic, topical references; the sing-along choruses... It's nowhere near as annoying as "American Pie," but it goes on too long and does nothing that "Oklahoma USA," for instance, didn't already do.
The song itself still wears on me a little in the way "American Pie" does: the melodramatic, topical references; the sing-along choruses... It's nowhere near as annoying as "American Pie," but it goes on too long and does nothing that "Oklahoma USA," for instance, didn't already do.
02/25/10 @ 13:25
Comment from: noonetwisting [Member]
I don't know if "disapointing" is the right word, but this Beach Boys/Latoya Jackson/Julio Iglesias collaboration is about as ill-advised and poorly executed as they get.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avE1gAWpEXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avE1gAWpEXM
02/25/10 @ 13:28
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Oh, and in terms of disappointing collaborations that I highly anticipated, two that come to mind are the Stamey-Holsapple album, Mavericks, and the recent David Byrne-Brian Eno album.
02/25/10 @ 13:28
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
02/25/10 @ 13:36
Comment from: Al [Member]
Thoughts while watching that video:
* I had heard that Bon Jovi tickets prices were very high and now I see why. Those hair treatments, collagen injections, and plastic surgery for Jon and Richie must be big bucks.
* this seemed like an old Carnac routine "What's a Brit, a git, and an 18-stringed twit?"
* Ray looks pretty cool, pulling off the sunglass, untucked shirt, hands in the pockets of the trench coat look. And what that hanging round his neck, a present from Flavor Flav?
Ray is playing Hartford next week, a 10 minute drive from my house and I have no desire to see him. And this coming from a guy who bought his first Kinks album over 40 years ago and saw his first Kinks concert 35 years ago. I long ago concluded that Ray & Kinks were one of the all time mediocre live bands. I've given up on Ray's solo stuff and these latests attempts at relevance (or whatever it is) border on pathetic.
I'll take Dave's brand of nostalgia. With his medical problems I don't know if we'll ever see him back on stage but he gave a kick-ass rock & roll performance (and all you had to do was put up with a bit of the alien/esp bits).
* I had heard that Bon Jovi tickets prices were very high and now I see why. Those hair treatments, collagen injections, and plastic surgery for Jon and Richie must be big bucks.
* this seemed like an old Carnac routine "What's a Brit, a git, and an 18-stringed twit?"
* Ray looks pretty cool, pulling off the sunglass, untucked shirt, hands in the pockets of the trench coat look. And what that hanging round his neck, a present from Flavor Flav?
Ray is playing Hartford next week, a 10 minute drive from my house and I have no desire to see him. And this coming from a guy who bought his first Kinks album over 40 years ago and saw his first Kinks concert 35 years ago. I long ago concluded that Ray & Kinks were one of the all time mediocre live bands. I've given up on Ray's solo stuff and these latests attempts at relevance (or whatever it is) border on pathetic.
I'll take Dave's brand of nostalgia. With his medical problems I don't know if we'll ever see him back on stage but he gave a kick-ass rock & roll performance (and all you had to do was put up with a bit of the alien/esp bits).
02/25/10 @ 13:43
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
Al, that is funny stuff. I love the Kinks dearly, but you are right about them as a live band. The best one can say is they have their moments. Mostly, though, they don't. It is significant that during their greatest era they barely even performed live.
I only saw them once, on the (stifle your laughter, please) UK Jive tour in 1990, I think. What can I tell you about the show? Nothing. File under: "Well, I can say I saw the Kinks."
I only saw them once, on the (stifle your laughter, please) UK Jive tour in 1990, I think. What can I tell you about the show? Nothing. File under: "Well, I can say I saw the Kinks."
02/25/10 @ 13:51
Comment from: alexmagic [Member]
noonetwisting - that Julio/Latoya/Love made a very brief appearance in the Rock Town Hall Labs once before: http://www.rocktownhall.com/blogs/index.php/oh-america
I would have loved to see that one get some more attention from the Townspeople. The Love/Johnston vs. Julio interaction is fascinating.
I would have loved to see that one get some more attention from the Townspeople. The Love/Johnston vs. Julio interaction is fascinating.
02/25/10 @ 13:54
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
The presence of La Toya on that stage at least saves Mike Love from being the most useless person present. Give her that much.
02/25/10 @ 14:03
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I could bring that thread back to The Main Stage for further analysis, in a special-edition It Feels Like Friday Flashback. What do you say, Townspeeps?
02/25/10 @ 14:03
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
Oh my God, I had never seen the CherBo. Six and half minutes. I am shocked. And stunned. Yeah, stunned.
02/25/10 @ 14:26
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
They must have really strong voices. There are a number of times when Bowie or Cher pull the mic far away from their face and you can still hear them perfectly!
That is a serious turd, BigSteve. Thanks for sharing.
That is a serious turd, BigSteve. Thanks for sharing.
02/25/10 @ 14:43
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
Hey, Misterioso -- mockcarr and I saw the Kinks on that tour, I think. Did they have a lone woman dancer, scurrying back and forth, wearing a diaphanous set of silken scarves that trailed behind her as she twisted and twirled to the music? If so, then you and I both saw the same tour. Mockcarr and I still laugh at that one.
02/25/10 @ 14:58
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
A lone woman dancer. Sounds, uh, really great. Could very well be. I saw them at a university. I have a pretty good memory but that show may as well never have happened for all I remember of it.
02/25/10 @ 15:28
Comment from: diskojoe [Member]
HVB, the solo dancer wasn't from the UK Jive Tour. It was from the '87 tour when the Kinks had a song called "It" & the dancer did her thing throught the song. That song only appeared on the Kinks live album that was on MCA called "The Road" after the title track, which was a studio one.
I got to see the Kinks around six times from 81-95, the last time at a local music theatre shed. I would love to had traded a couple of those shows w/some from the early-mid 70s. The opening acts were all terrible to forgettable, w/Tonio K being the highest profile one, although I remember seeing one Jon Eddie on the UK Jive tour bellowing to the audience after making a Grand Move, "If I was famous, you would be going nuts now!"
I got to see the Kinks around six times from 81-95, the last time at a local music theatre shed. I would love to had traded a couple of those shows w/some from the early-mid 70s. The opening acts were all terrible to forgettable, w/Tonio K being the highest profile one, although I remember seeing one Jon Eddie on the UK Jive tour bellowing to the audience after making a Grand Move, "If I was famous, you would be going nuts now!"
02/25/10 @ 15:44
Comment from: Oats [Member]
That dancer was Ray's then-wife. I think she was on a couple of tours, even into the Phobia era. At least that, I think, is what Doug Hinman's Kinks book reports.
I saw The Kinks in 1995, at the Valley Forge Music Fair, a suburban shed with a rotating stage. I thought they were pretty great, actually. But I'm sure if I heard a boot of that show now, I'd be calling them out for all sorts of rock crimes.
Saw Ray three times solo. Saw Dave solo once. No Alien/ESP stuff, but a lot of of bad, cheesy guitar tone (and with a Telecaster, somehow!). However, I really appreciated that he performed Kinks songs in their entirety, not lopping off verses and bridges like Ray does.
Dave was going to tour the East Coast last month, but I think the shows were indefinitely postponed, on doctor's advice
I saw The Kinks in 1995, at the Valley Forge Music Fair, a suburban shed with a rotating stage. I thought they were pretty great, actually. But I'm sure if I heard a boot of that show now, I'd be calling them out for all sorts of rock crimes.
Saw Ray three times solo. Saw Dave solo once. No Alien/ESP stuff, but a lot of of bad, cheesy guitar tone (and with a Telecaster, somehow!). However, I really appreciated that he performed Kinks songs in their entirety, not lopping off verses and bridges like Ray does.
Dave was going to tour the East Coast last month, but I think the shows were indefinitely postponed, on doctor's advice
02/25/10 @ 15:50
Comment from: mockcarr [Member]
HVB, that was the show where we hailed a limo as a cab and arrived like rock stars for 10 bucks or something, right?
02/25/10 @ 15:54
Comment from: cdm [Member]
RE CherBo medley: Do you need any further proof of the insidiousness of cocaine?
02/25/10 @ 16:08
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Indeed, Oats, and alexmagic wondered why it took 30 great Bowie songs to convince me that I like him. He's a chronic Rock Criminal.
02/25/10 @ 20:01
Comment from: Oats [Member]
He's a chronic Rock Criminal.
... says the fan of solo Lou Reed!
Need I remind you?
http://bit.ly/agJHlD
02/25/10 @ 20:37
Comment from: Oats [Member]
Thank you, Mr. Mod.
The YouTube clip on that thread has since been pulled. Here's a working one for everyone. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGKL4NA5qJk
The YouTube clip on that thread has since been pulled. Here's a working one for everyone. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGKL4NA5qJk
02/25/10 @ 20:47
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
I'm not a big fan of Celluloid Heroes either, but I recently read an interview with Kinks keyboard player John Gosling, who disagrees:
What song are you most proud of in terms of your own contribution and or the group as a whole.
JG : ’Celluloid Heroes’, without a doubt. It is my favourite Kinks song, too.
What song are you most proud of in terms of your own contribution and or the group as a whole.
JG : ’Celluloid Heroes’, without a doubt. It is my favourite Kinks song, too.
02/25/10 @ 23:19
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
One of the weird things about the CherBo medley is that the segues from one song to another are very precise and would have required some serious rehearsal. I would have escaped to Berlin too, if only to escape that proto-Gaga wig.
02/25/10 @ 23:26
Comment from: 2000 Man [Member]
C'mon, would anyone be disappointed if Cher or Bon Jovi did that shit by themselves? No, they wouldn't. JaBo is on all levels the most disappointing collaboration of Rock Super Powers ever. To think that they spent extra time filming a video of that shiiity track is even more unbelievable.
I never saw The Kinks. I figured they were done before I was ten, and I was born in 1962. Sleepwalker has two entirely okay songs on it, though,
I never saw The Kinks. I figured they were done before I was ten, and I was born in 1962. Sleepwalker has two entirely okay songs on it, though,
02/25/10 @ 23:43
Comment from: bostonhistorian [Member]
I've always thought the "collaborations" where a dead artist's vocal track is combined with vocals from their son/daughter/second wife/drug dealer were the true abominations. Whenever I hear one I think of Sam Kinison's routine about necrophilia. That being said, I didn't find Bowie/Jagger disappointing because I didn't expect it to be good--the level of reality matched my level of expectation. Same goes with Ray Davies and Bon Jovi. I'm disappointed that Ray would do it, but the result is entire predictable. I'm trying to think of two artists I really like who worked together and ended up being less than the sum of their parts.
02/26/10 @ 07:25
Comment from: diskojoe [Member]
"I never saw The Kinks. I figured they were done before I was ten, and I was born in 1962."
2000 Man, can't you say the same thing about the Stones? (I was also born in 1962) I like the Brian Jones era, but I find that the Stones are boring these days.
2000 Man, can't you say the same thing about the Stones? (I was also born in 1962) I like the Brian Jones era, but I find that the Stones are boring these days.
02/26/10 @ 08:23
Comment from: Oats [Member]
2000 Man, are your feelings about the Kinks more similar to your feelings about the Beatles (general disinterest) or Led Zep (outright disdain)? Just curious.
02/26/10 @ 09:37
Comment from: 2000 Man [Member]
Oats, I think the 60's Kinks were fantastic. I never really got Village Green, and I think Muswell Hillbillies is okay, I guess. I've got a French ep collection cd that I think every song is damned near perfect, though. When I play it, I tend to play it for days on end. So I think The Kinks just went in a different direction for me. Probably because Ray started using some older British styles as touchstones, and I just don't like that kind of music.
diskojoe, I didn't really start listening to The Stones until late 81. I was listening before that, but they were still too popular for me to pay attention to. Then I looked in my record crate and saw I had like fourteen of their albums, and I had to face the cold, hard fact that I was apparently some kind of fanboy. I can't blame you for finding them boring these days, they're pretty old, but Jagger is still quite the spectacle. I've seen them put on some pretty awesome shows though, right up through 2002. The stuff since, Keith just isn't playing anymore. Maybe he can't, his knuckles are the size of golf balls.
I guess for me, The Kinks are a 60's band. I just don't like what they did after that. It's okay, but I just knew they weren't going to play David Watts or Death of A Clown if I went to see them, and I knew I'd hear a bunch of the 70's songs I just didn't like.
diskojoe, I didn't really start listening to The Stones until late 81. I was listening before that, but they were still too popular for me to pay attention to. Then I looked in my record crate and saw I had like fourteen of their albums, and I had to face the cold, hard fact that I was apparently some kind of fanboy. I can't blame you for finding them boring these days, they're pretty old, but Jagger is still quite the spectacle. I've seen them put on some pretty awesome shows though, right up through 2002. The stuff since, Keith just isn't playing anymore. Maybe he can't, his knuckles are the size of golf balls.
I guess for me, The Kinks are a 60's band. I just don't like what they did after that. It's okay, but I just knew they weren't going to play David Watts or Death of A Clown if I went to see them, and I knew I'd hear a bunch of the 70's songs I just didn't like.
02/26/10 @ 11:04
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