it really is a tragedy. i found out via a text from a friend, and i didn't believe it at first. i guess i was sorta convinced that he couldn't die. at least not yet. the guy had a lot of good songs, and a lot of talent.

call me cynical, but coming 50 years after the day the music died, do you think there's a chance of another American Pie 10 years from now?

weird. he basically tried to stay the same age that he is in this clip.

the subtext for most of what we knew about mj was that there was a VERY sad back story.

what a shame.

That was quite a day yesterday. No one is mentioning Sky Saxon, and that's a shame. That's the one time a rocker from a band like The Seeds might get mentioned.

Dog works in mysterious ways.

Like Elvis - though for vastly different reasons, of course - he ended up with a musical legacy that will forver be overshadowed the caricature he became.

To focus on the music side of things, I could still listen to the very best Jackson 5 songs without ever having to let what would come later seep in, they're that good. And I think you could stack up his performance on "Never Can Say Goodbye" pretty favorably against most challengers.

On the other side of things, he was the defining artist of the video age of music for better or worse. The songs weren't anywhere near as good as what he did as a kid, but he put out some fascinatingly weird shit in video form. As far as I can remember, the last "big event" video he put out was a bizarre train wreck with Chris Tucker, the guy who played Frank Nitti in DePalma's Untouchables and a CGI Marlon Brando, because Brando couldn't walk around himself anymore. In its own way, that was kind of a summation of where he ended up, I guess.

Mod, that's brave of you to kinda, sorta admit liking "Black or White". Anybody else willing to step up and admit the last Michael Jackson song they actually liked? I'd have to think about it, myself.

I will lend my wishy-washy support to the Mod for Black or White.

"Black Or White" is lame. The last MJ song I liked was "The Way You Make Me Feel."

A more interesting question, maybe: what do you reckon was MJ's best solo track? For me, it'd have to be "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough." That song is aces, all the way.

"Black and White" is indeed lame. We reach, hrrundi.

Although I noticed last night that some of the other Dangerous-era stuff has aged surprisingly okay. "Remember the Time" and all that.

I think the last one I kinda liked was "Scream," with Janet. It has cool, futuristic Jam and Lewis production. Although the hype for the song and its video (most expensive ever) was ridiculous.

I think most of the Thriller singles are unimpe@chable. "Billie Jean" was one of my first favorite songs and I never get tired of it.

Yeah, probably Billy Jean is the first one I think of during his solo career. Of course, I never had that album, unlike millions.

I'll lend my strong support for "Black & White" - I like the guitar riff. It's a neat little song.

The video was the first major crack in the Jackson legacy. Didn't he catch major flack for the panther/destruction ending (as well as grabbing his groin)

The J5 rules. As a pre-teen, I played their greatest hits record constantly as well as the "Going Back To Indiana" TV special soundtrack.

Fuck you, Hrrundi and Oats! "Black or White" makes use of solo Michael Jackson's best attribute: his rhythm. Beginning with Thriller I think he lost his youthful knack for carrying a melody. All those hiccuping affectations on "Billie Jean" and the like ruin whatever melody might be in those songs. I'd argue that his BEST solo song is "Wanna Be Starting Something" - I think that's what it's called, the one that goes into the "mamasay mamasa mamacusa" bit. RHYTHM was all that remained human as that freak progressed toward his sad ending. (My apologies in advance for offending anyone who actually likes "Billie Jean" and the song "Thriller." To me those songs just sound like the equivalent of Ken doll's smooth crotch.)

Getting back to "Black or White," I would argue that it's MJ's "Kokomo," the last time he really stuck his dick on the table and said THIS IS WHAT I REALLY DESIRE.

As for videos alone, how about that one with Naomi Campbell in the desert? Man, she's smokin' in that video. THAT IS WHAT I DESIRED.

This strong show of support for "Black Or White" from a certain segment of RTH is quite interesting. I sense a tribute cover in the works.

That's the video you're thinking of, Andy. It debuted on Fox and MTV simultaneously, I think, and featured Macaulay Culkin pretending to rap and special guest George Wendt in addition to the crotch-grabbing, crowbar on car assualt and panther-turning-into.

I'm leaning towards either "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" or "Wanna Be Startin' Something" for his best solo song. The latter was not only a legitmately good song for its time, but also featured those baffling "you're a vegetable/and they hate you" lyrics. I have no idea what that means, but I know that it is great.

On the other hand, "Don't Stop..." had the video where Jackson is dancing in the tuxedo, then all of the sudden, more Michael Jacksons in more tuxedos walk into frame, notice each other, nod appreciatively and then all dance together during the song's breakdown. Clearly, the finest non-Thriller Eyes moment in his video history.

Getting back to "Black or White," I would argue that it's MJ's "Kokomo," the last time he really stuck his dick on the table and said THIS IS WHAT I REALLY DESIRE.

Is this now the default rebuttal whenever we challenge you on the latter-day turds of once-great artists? What's McCartney's "Kokomo"? "We All Stand Together"?

It's not like this is the only musically inert plea for tolerance and harmony that MJ wrote. (Too soon?) And why hire Slash to play a riff that makes Steve Lukather sound like six-string god? And no bass! The whole song sounds like the world's most expensive tin can. Good DAY, sir!

"Don't Stop..." is great. Alexmagic and I have often discussed the greatness of that multiple-Michaels sequence. "Hey, nice moves! Let me give it a try!"

Come on, Oats. The man just died. What a ghoul.

On that note, I'm tempted to take the previously mentioned CGI Brando video ("U Rock My World") into the RTH Labs for discussion. I think it could be a healing experience. It's either that or review those Quincy Jones commentary tracks from Thriller 20.

I'm not sure that McCartney has a "Kokomo," Oats. Good question. "Ebony and Ivory" may have been an attempt at a joint "Kokomo" for Paul and Stevie, but it fell short.

Listen, you can call it a "default rebuttal," but at least I've have demonstrated consistent standards in assessing late-career turds. Maybe a Kokomo, as in an artist's last pathetic attempt at a great stand, should be given some thought and added to the RTH Glossary. I'll have to see if I can better define what it is that makes for a Kokomo. You may have a better handle on my thinking, Oats, than I do myself. Feel free to guide me. Thanks.

Thumbs up to taking that video into the RTH Labs, alexmagic! I've been thinking about creating and then analyzing a mash-up video of the sepia-toned, desert-themed videos by the dys-sexual brother-sister duo of Michael and Janet. What's really going on in the MJ video with Naomi Campbell and how is it commenting on the video with an uncommonly fit Janet running in a little tank top while that smokin' male model rolls behind her in some giant hula-hoop.

Mod, three things:

One. I am fully and completely behind the notion of adding the term "kokomo" to the glossary. But we need to agree of the correct grammatical deployment of the term. I for one am in favor of using it as follows:

- "Dropping" a kokomo
- "Cutting" a kokomo
- "Taking" a kokomo

... and so forth.

Two. I call bullshit on you and Velv with your supposed appreciation for "Black Or White." I just sat through six minutes of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI9OYMRwN1Q&feature=channel

... in order to be sure I wasn't crazy. I'm not -- that song is a major, MAJOR turd. I challenge you -- no, I SUMMON YOU -- to watch this video (the whole thing, like I did; it's only fair) and report back to us. I'm betting that, like me, after sixty seconds of that asinine, icepick-in-the-forehead riff, you'll be lunging for the "stop" button.

Three. Alexmagic, please do take the lead on that vuh-deo analysis. I look forward to it!

HVB

All that said, Kokomo still blows like a Nor'easter! Do, or do not, there is no try -they did NOT fashion a last good example of their template there as far as I'm concerned, and any replaying should be consigned to the decks of small yachts and dinghies as a means for indicating one should abandon ship.

I kind of like that Man in the Middle song.

Seriously the first three J5 singles -- I Want You Back, ABC, and The Love You Save -- are pure genius, as good as pop music gets. But they're great because of the writing, playing, and production, not the singing. The ballads I'll Be There and Never Can Say Goodbye just sound like mush to me, and after that I lose interest, especially since I'm pretty much not interested in watching anyone dance.

All of this coverage reminds me of Keith's comments years after Brian's death, something about the problem being the fact that Brian's goal was to be a star rather than a musician. MJ achieved his goal of being for a time the world's biggest star. And the only way to go after that is down, usually way down.

I heard yesterday that he had mortgaged both the Beatles' publishing rights and his back catalog to the max. I wonder if McCartney is going to buy his songs back now.

My god, that video is appalling on so many levels. I'd don't think I've ever seen it before.

That's a good guitar riff, but not good enough to loop endlessly through the 'song' without variation.

But they're great because of the writing, playing, and production, not the singing.

I just want it on the RTH record that I respectfully, strongly disagree with this statement. His vocals make those songs as far as I'm concerned.

The thing about the best songs on Thriller is that the rhythm section just blows out of the speakers. Like the vocals or not, that's some seriously rocking dance music there.

I'm onboard with the vocals on those J5 singles and not just Michael's but the rest of the brothers as well.

The numbers thrown around in the bit of surfing I did last night were wild. In the space of 45 minutes I heard that Thriller sold "27 millions copies", "50 million copies", "65 million copies", and "109 million copies". Personally, I don't believe any of those numbers.

And it said he was a half-billion dollars in debt?!?! Is that possible? And that at one point he was spending $30 million a month - a MONTH - more than he was earning. How is that possible?

And there was the report that he told his lawyer earlier this year that he wanted his will to give the Beatles catalog to Macca. I don't believe that one either but wouldn't it piss off Yoko. And since I've heard they were mortgaged to the hilt I'm not sure that it matters.

Supposedly he bought that catalog for $48 million (and in another number I don't believe, it was mentioned last night that they are now worth $1 billion). What the hell were Paul and Yoko thinking that they let them get away for what was basically pocket change to them? Must be more to that story.

Hrrundi, I'm in the middle of many, many things right now. I'll make some time late tonight, if possible, to revisit "Black or White" and explain what it is I kind of like about it. I can't get into depth about it now, but in short - musically - for me it works like a decent latter period XTC song.

Meanwhile, have you yet told us what you feel is the last decent MJ song? (BTW, BigSteve's nomination of "Man in the Middle" was my second choice.)

I think the best of the Jackson 5 songs are combinations of tremendous writing and production along with excellent vocal performances.

If I were to put togethe a list of my favorite "moments" in songs, it would include that part in "The Love You Save" where the song breaks down so they can spell out s-t-o-p ("p is for please please...don't go!") and then turns into Michael and Jermaine vamping back and forth. For a guy who had his band stolen away by his baby brother, Jermaine really did have a great voice. But that moment is definitely a combination of great pop writing and vocal talent.

"Never Can Say Goodbye" is a very well-written song - by Clifton Davis of Amen and That's My Mama fame, no less - that gets taken to another level by the vocals. It obviously wasn't written with a child singer in mind, but he sold the hell out of it, in my mind, even better than Isaac Hayes would later.

"Sad" "Tragic"? I thought my name was "maudlin". C'mon, the dude was a freak and most likely a child molester. I'm not really angry at the guy. He clearly was a sick person and his own self-mutilated life was certainly a prison. But I am getting tired of the saccharine in all the press. Can't say I'm glad he's dead but I'm not gonna shed a tear either.

I'm glad most of us are focusing on the music. That's cool.

But no one has mentioned the real tragedy here- Bubbles. What will become of poor Bubbles?

Here's The Onion's take on the news:

King Of Pop Dead At 12
LOS ANGELES—Michael Jackson, a talented child performer known for his love of amusement park rides and his hobby of collecting exotic animals for his Neverland Ranch, died from sudden cardiac arrest Thursday at the age of 12. The prepubescent singer, who enjoyed playing dress-up and often referred to himself as "the King of Pop," was celebrated for his naïve exuberance and his generosity toward other children. "This is a terrible loss for music and for all of us," brother Jermaine Jackson said. "He had so much potential to blossom into a gracious and mature human being. As it is, the world will never know the genius Michael Jackson might have become had he grown up." The singer leaves behind a large body of hits, 25,000 unopened toys, and nearly $400 million of debt.

Decades ago I remember seeing a comedian at some venue in Philly who did a bit trying to sing "Never Can Say Goodbye". He'd keep repeating "never can say gu-gu". Think about it. There was another song which had a similar problem but I've never been able to remember that one.

He had another line I remember - at least I think it was the same guy - talking about Charlie Christian and saying something to the effect that "I feel like I've accomplished so little; I mean just think about, at my age, Charlie Christian was already dead for three years".

Mod, I take back everything I've been saying about you. You're right; "Black Or White" is about as good a tune, as, say, "River Of Orchids" or "Green Man" -- or maybe "Then She Appeared."

I did choose my Last Okay MJ Song.

Hrrundi, my deepest apologies for forgetting that you had already chosen a Last Okay MJ Song. Likewise, even deeper apologies for all the things I thought about you when you suggested that my Last Okay MJ Song was "lame." Finally, I would like to thank our shared knowledge of waning XTC albums for initiating this healing exchange. The particular song I had in mind that "Black or White" blows away (in baseball's Independent League competition terms) is "Stupidly Happy." If needed, I had planned to SUMMON Geo to compare "Black or White" to "Stupidly Happy." This is not to suggest that "Stupidly Happy" was XTC's dropping a Kokomo. If they dropped a Kokomo, it would have been a song more representative of their career aspirations.

I agree, Alexmagic that the best J5 moments where when Jermaine and Mike coutnerpointed each other:

NP: J5 "Reflections"

Earlier today I thought the similarity between Black and White and Stupidly Happy. I prefer the single riff with variations on top approach of Stupidly Happy, but yeah, the guitar riff is pretty close.

I suspect that that video isn’t a fair representation of the song. It seems like it was edited to be a video event rather than just a song. I think we need to judge the tune on the single version.

I offered my tepid support to the Mod for B&W and I stand by that. The riff is decent and the melody is pretty good. If the single version whittled things down to under 3 minutes, I think it’s a decent, if inconsequential bit of pop fluff.

It kind of reminds me of Faith by George Michael (which I think we can all agree was GM’s last Great song).

HVB, I’m with on Kokomo:
“You know, when it comes to latter day Beach Boys, I think that the Mod doesn’t know Kokomo from shinola.”

“Those damn neighborhood kids left a flaming bag of Kokomo on my door step!”

“Man, I got Kokomo-faced at happy hour last night.

etc

Gotta love a forum where the Moderator starts his replies with "Fuck you..."

It's a little know fact that Mod is bleeding $30 million a month on Rock Town Hall and has developed a pill habit.

All kidding aside I was really saddened by this news. It really hit hard.

The last MJ song I remember liking staight away was "The way you make me feel"

Al, that's a ripoff of a Woody Allen line about Mozart. Which could be a ripoff of many who have lived past 30-something in the last 200 years.

I think I did that other thing to my brother one time when he was playing a Chicago album. "It's hard for me to say I'm Ssrrr. I'm sooo. Srraahh. Not sorry." I bet I stole it from Steve Martin kind of.

It's Man in the Mirror, isn't it?

I like Theme from Pepsi Commercial.

What's worse. He owed me money.

Yes, it's a mirror in which one finds the man. Sorry about that.

Listen here, youse boys 'r all wrong. The best/last great MJ solo record/duet was the astounding 'State of Shock' single, on which Jacko shared the mic with that grand old Knight of Rock, Sir Michael Phillip Jagger. It's absolutely perfect in it's distillation of what those type of performers were all about at the time: coasting on past glories. Probably the finest example of negative energy expenditure I can think of.

The entire backing track sounds like it was recorded from the next room on a realistic portable cassette player from 1974,using a rhythm loop from a Lowrey home organ, & a quasi guitar riff that sounds like something'Keef' would have picked out of his nose & left on the underside of the mixing board in a studio somewhere exotic, but played on a student model Kent, through a Marlboro practice amp, & miked using a tin can & string telephone.

On top of that is laid a thick, steaming pile of the two MJs shouting stuff back & forth to each other. The whole thing gives new meaning to "written 5 minutes after we recorded it". In doing so, to my mind, it sums up the shared attitude of indifference both show people apparently felt towards their respective products at the time, & thusly becomes a truly epic work of the artistry of sloth. It's quite beautiful, really.

Bobby, State of Shock must have required considerably more work than you think. It was originally a duet with Freddie Mercury, but Freddie just couldn't get that "I'm constipated" vocal down, so Mick Jagger was brought in. Mick was testing the waters for his soon to be easily forgotten solo career, and blew away all of Freddie's efforts. You can find the Freddie version on YouTube. I don't know why anyone would want to, but it's there.

Bobby, those are the comments of a white devil. Very, very devilish.

RTH is primarily a music discussion site so it's natural to comment on his music, but the bizarre circus of his life has so overshadowed the music, I find that aspect far more interesting than his catalogue. It's the 800 pound gorilla, giraffe, and chimp in the room. I'll probably always enjoy the J5 hits, but it's impossible for me to hear his later stuff without my conciousness being hijacked by all those other associations.

Chickenfrank, now that's just ignorance. When I say sloth, I'm referring to an ancient Egyptian term meaning "Greatness of the Gods manifested in craftsmanship, inspiration, & artistry". Do your homework before casting stones, please. When I say, "negative energy expenditure", I'm referencing an early Babylonian phrase meaning, "God-like artistry, through intense creative passion". So ignorant. When I say "beautiful" I'm using an obscure Atlantean term which mens, "a crock of shit". Oh, please. The ignorance...

BTW, I actually went to youtube looking for a video of SOS (I could have sworn there was one, but maybe Jagger had Prince Rupert Lowenbraustienerhoffen burn all the extant copies). There was, indeed, talk of this as a planned collab with "Mr.Badguy" Mercury, but supposedly it was a scheduling problem for the Fredster (there was a week of Lisa on 'The Make Believe Ballroom', & he just didn't want to miss a second), so it never got past this alleged demo. I clicked on every one of those labeled "Freddie Mercury & Michael", & they were ALL the Jagger version. There was NO version posted w/Mercury, & the best part was the the comments section. Neither the postees of this "demo" clip, which ALL featured stills of F.M. & of Michael, but not together, & definitely not performing this "song". None of them knew the difference between Jagger & Mercury, & got quite stroppy about it when a couple of people tried to point out the error. That, and the commentators writing such things as "This is pretty good. I wish I'd heard it before.", & "I've never even heard of Mick Jagger!" made for better entertainment than the "song" in question. As big a fan of irritainment as I may be, that particular number will hold a special place in the twelfth rung of pop music hell, & by that I invoke the alternative, little used, olde ancient Norse for "Valhalla". Please, ...the ignorance!

Man, I'd totally forgotten about "State of Shock." Thanks for reminding me, Bobby. They say those who forget the past...

the funniest story i've heard about "state of shock" (and i don't know if it's true and i can't remember where i read it):

while they were doing jagger's takes, he was was off key quite a bit, and needed to re-write certain parts to be talked, barked, or shouted, and had to punch in a lot of singing parts to get them right. according to legend, michael waited for the talk back mic to be turned off, turned to others in the control room, incredulous, and said, "how did HE become famous?"

It was an odd day when Michael died. My daughter and I have been using some of my vacation time to travel my home state to visit the blues sites. Our state legislature have approved a commission to erect markers in these locations. They call it "The Mississippi Blues Trail." I am keeping a blog because I want to visit every site marked.

We were on our way to Forest, MS to visit the marker honoring Arthur Crudup when my phone rang. My mother was telling me that Michael had died. I don't have a fancy "internet phone" so I called a friend who saw the reports that Michael had been ruched to the hospital, but his death was not offical...yet. Then, the news broke that he had indeed passed away. I probably received 10-15 calls within thirty minutes. The Artur Crudup marker was not there (probably removed for repair or stolen).

Michael was my generation's Elvis. His importance to us cannot be understated. Like Elvis, he became a the punchline to many jokes. I was secretly hoping that Michael's comeback would be a success and he could reclaim some sort of glory that he had lost through the lawsuits and criminal charges of recent years. Between 82 and 85, there was no one who came close to Michael's bright, shining star. No one. My friend Rusty pointed out that our "moon walk" wasn't Neil Armstrong's, but Michael's.

I was trying to put context on his importance for my daughter (she's 11) and the only person I could compare for her generation was Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana (She's not a fan, thankfully.). But, her fame doesn't even touch the hugeness of Michael's during the 80s. I was talking to a 15 year old a while back and asked him if he knew who Michael was. The kid said something to the effect that he was some guy who messes with little kids. I thought that it is very sad that that is what he is known for these days.

His music can be debated. He's certainly not the greatest artist, but the run of albums between Off The Wall and Dangerous are pretty impressive, especially in terms of numbers. Most of the singles are pretty near great, too. Not very rock and roll, but certainly of their times, for better and for worse.

Perhaps, in death, Michael can achieve some sort of peace and his musical/cultural legacy can be restored. I don't feel as close to Micahel as I do Macca/Townshend/Dylan, but I do in the sense that he is of my own generation. The bottom line is that he was a very talented person who died too young.

TB

Yes, and most likely an insane pedophile, who paid people off to keep his freaky ass out of the slammer. He will be missed. Too young. Too young.