Sep 112010
 

Who’s game for a little Dugout Chatter? Trusting your gut, please answer the following questions. Absolutely no expertise is required. All are invited to play.

Quick: What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?

Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

  • Brooklyn synth-gazers
  • Drone-psych warriors
  • Leather-clad fuzz-pop
  • Synth-punks

Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

Should Taylor accept Kanye‘s apology?

What’s your favorite apology song?

What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

I look forward to your responses.

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  29 Responses to “Dugout Chatter”

  1. misterioso

    1. Non-English lyric–pretty much simultaneously “Michelle, ma belle, sont des mots qui vont tres bien ensemble” (if that is correct) or “No llores mi querida, dios nos vigila” etc. from Dylan’s Romance in Durango.

    2. Modern Day band descriptions–No reaction whatsoever.

    3. Quaint phrase–Hmm. What does that mean? Like, “only trouble is, gee whiz, I’m dreaming my life away?”

    4. Taylor and Kanye–What? I have a vague enough idea who Kanye is, does that count for something?

    5. Apology song–I don’t know if it counts. It starts as an apology: “I didn’t mean to treat you so bad.” But “One of Us Must Know (Sooner or Later)” from Blonde on Blonde is a spectacularly great song, whatever it is. I think All Apologies is pretty good, too.

    6. The first song I can remember actively disliking is “Wildfire” by Michael Martin Murphy which was really popular when I was in 1st grade or thereabouts. Maybe even earlier was that “My name is Michael, I’ve got a nickel” song–Playground in My Mind by Clint Holmes. Man, I still hate that.

  2. Mr. Moderator

    YES, misterioso, your “gee whiz” phrase is exactly the type of phrase I had in mind. I was watching some old movie the other night in which a character actually said “gee whiz” and that’s what spurred the question.

    “One of Us Must Know…” is a great song!

  3. bostonhistorian

    1. Non English lyric: I can only think of phrases, not actual lyrics. Chuck Berry’s “You Never Can Tell” came to mind, as well as Hank Williams’ “Jambalaya”

    2. Synth punk, maybe. The rest sound dreary.

    3. Quaint phrase? Not sure, since it’s different from a cliche. “Oh boy!” comes to mind.

    4. Taylor Swift doesn’t need an apology from Kanye West.

    5. Apology song? “I Apologize” by Husker Du.

    6. First song I disliked? Loggins and Messina, “Your Mama Don’t Dance”. Just awful.

  4. 2000 Man

    Quick: What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?

    I don’t know other languages, so this could be a mess, but in Hey Negrita there’s a line that I think goes, “Comma si chiama, what’s your game.” That’s a cool song.

    Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

    * Brooklyn synth-gazers
    * Drone-psych warriors
    * Leather-clad fuzz-pop
    * Synth-punks

    All of those bug me. All the new little niches critics use bug me because I think it does more to describe the Look of the bands than it does to describe the music.

    Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    I’ve got sunshine, on a cloudy day

    Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?

    I don’t care. She should have called him an asshole when he did what he did.

    What’s your favorite apology song?

    Is Ain’t Too Proud To Beg and apology song? That’s my quick pick anyway.

    What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    The Jackson 5

  5. 1. Michelle, already said. 2nd would be the French girl in Rod Stewart’s Tonight’s the Night.
    2. I would listen to these 4 clips in this order:
    Leather-clad fuzz-pop
    Drone-psych warriors
    Synth-punks
    Brooklyn synth-gazers (Brooklyn as an adjective bugs me)
    3. “Oh My Golly” from The Pixies Surfer Rosa (listened to that yesterday)
    4. Do not care
    5. So. Central Rain (I’m Sorry) by REM
    6. Kiss (the band). I was the right age for these guys and when the older boys brought their Kiss Army gear around I just did not get it. It seemed ridiculous to me as a 13 yr old and it still does.

  6. 2000 Man

    I guess I was more cliche than quaint, but I tried to do things fast and that’s what we get. So I guess I’ve got to go with, “who call the English teacher Daddy-O.”

    That’s a good one to get stuck in your head all day!

  7. Mr. Moderator

    k. wrote:

    Brooklyn synth-gazers (Brooklyn as an adjective bugs me)

    Not only would I listen to those bands in the same order you have stated, albeit with great reluctance, but your criticism of the use of Brooklyn as an adjective is spot on! The thing that first bugged me most about this description is the redundancy of having to describe synth players as musicians who “gaze.” How many synth players look like they have a pulse on stage? I’m not anti-synth, necessariy, but anti-what the synth does to stage presence.

  8. misterioso

    k., that’s pretty insightful on Kiss. At 8, which I think is how old I was when Destroyer came out, it was the coolest thing that was ever likely to be, anywhere. By the time I was 10, it all seemed pretty stupid. At 13–only a complete loser would have still cared.

    Bostonhistorian–Your Mama Don’t Dance is truly awful and has been since day one, you are so right. If you can get through this clip, in which Loggins and Messina approach Mike Love levels of pseudo-playful loathsomeness, without wanting to punch someone, then mister you’re a better man than I. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdtzuY1z5RI

  9. Quick: What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?

    Ob la di Ob la da. I don’t like it but that’s what popped into my head.

    Modern-day band description

    They all get an eye roll from me.
    Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    Hey good lookin, what cha got cookin

    Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?

    Good Lord I hope so. In this day and age we should be focusing our attention on much more important things, like what that fugly Kardashian sister is going to wear to the premier of Transformers 5.

    What’s your favorite apology song?

    Not sure if it’s a straight apology song but This Close To You by Joe Henry

    What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    Something from early to mid 70s AM radio, like Rock the Boat (which I now love) or Wildfire (which I still hate) or Piano Man (which I hate even more now than I did then).

  10. What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?

    “Michelle”…easy.

    Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

    I have decided that Pitchfork are a bucnh of 17-year-old punks and anything they say doesn’t deserve a thought or a shred of my attention. Sorry, Pitchfork.

    What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    “I don’t know where, but she sends me there” is about as simple and sublime as it gets.

    Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?

    Sure, why not. Who cares? I don’t.

    What’s your favorite apology song?

    K. beat me to “So. Central Rain.”

    What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    Still don’t care for them. The Supremes. They used to always ruin all the GREAT oldies music on the oldies station. Never cared for them.

    TB

  11. 1. Ray Davies speaks a bit of French in a dopey latter-day Kinks song “Down all the Days.”

    2. None of the above.

    3. Probably something by The Divine Comedy. “You chased the sun around the Cote d’Azur/Until the light of youth became obscured.”

    4. Yes. Part of me still thinks Kanye is embarking on a career-long Andy Kaufman-esque stunt that will put Joaquim Phoeniz to shame.

    5. “Start Again” by Teenage Fanclub

    6. “Sweet Dreams Are Made of This” freaked the hell out of me when I was a kid.

  12. Quick: What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?
    fhqwhgads-as in:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-WTbGupxbk

    Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

    neo-folk revivalists

    Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    wouldn’t it be nice if we were older…

    Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?

    yeah, they should appear in a Hennessey commercial together. I’m sure that’s who orchestrated that whole thing. product placement is where the $$$ is.

    What’s your favorite apology song?

    I’m Sorry-Tin Machine 2 (Hunt sayles sings!)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YeH052svSc

    What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    ah shuddup a you face-whoever the fuck sings that regional hit should be drowned.

  13. BigSteve

    Quick: What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?

    Voulez-vous couchez avec moi ce soir?

    Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

    I think I’m more likely to be positive about the synth ones. I find I’m getting bored to death by skinny white boys with guitars.

    Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    If the river was whiskey
    I was a duck
    I’d dive to the bottom
    and I’d never come up

    Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?

    I think it works better if she just lets him continue to make an ass of himself with his apologies that are really just another attempt at self-aggrandizement.

    What’s your favorite apology song?

    I’m Sorry (But So Is Brenda Lee)

    What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    Itsy Bitsy teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini started my lifelong hatred of novelty songs.

  14. misterioso

    BigSteve, the other day, apropos of nothing, I had Itsy Bitsy teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini stuck in my head. It was bloody annoying.

    When I was a little kid there was some novelty hits compilation that they sold on TV–I can still remember the snippets of some of the songs, like the aforementioned, as well as Flying Purple People Eaters, Monster Mash, Snoopy and the Red Baron, They’re Coming to Take Me Away, and God knows what else. Dreadful stuff.

    Oats–“Start Again” by Teenage Fanclub, am I being unfair if I assume (never having heard it) that is a knock-off of Try Again by Big Star, which is a pretty good apology song, by the way?

  15. Oats–“Start Again” by Teenage Fanclub, am I being unfair if I assume (never having heard it) that is a knock-off of Try Again by Big Star, which is a pretty good apology song, by the way?

    I don’t think they sound at all alike, but judge for yourself:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZsZx7uoTro

  16. misterioso

    No, they don’t sound much alike.

  17. 1) Questo obrigado tanta mucho que can it eat carousel.

    2) All negative. I’m so bored with Rock journalism.

    3) Good Golly Miss Molly

    4) No! Inappropriate behavior should be curtailed, and the apology doesn’t wipe the slate clean. He wants to apologize just to keep his own name in the news and benefit. He’s not actually sorry. Dr.(!) Laura Schlesinger (sp?) wanted to apologize for saying N-word, N-word, N-word over and over just to burnish her own image, not because she was even slightly contrite. Let’s stop the fake apology industry.

    5) All Apologies, Nirvana

    6) Don’t ask me memory type questions.

  18. alexmagic

    Leather-clad fuzz-pop

    Congrats on getting Pitchfork to publish your in-depth review of that Suzi Quatro greatest hits collection, Mod.

  19. bostonhistorian

    That Loggins and Messina clip is absolutely horrific.

  20. The thing that first bugged me most about this description is the redundancy of having to describe synth players as musicians who “gaze.” How many synth players look like they have a pulse on stage?

    I think the gaze may refer to shoegaze style, not looking around. And have you seen this guy with a synth?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xggFzkyd288&feature=related

    What stage presence! What an unholy racket!

  21. As someone who used to play piano, I have long thought about the particular plights of keyboard players in rock. If you can’t afford to carry around big, old, expensive gear (baby grand, b3, vox or farfisa, moog even), it’s really hard to a) look cool and b) have cool-looking gear. Thoughts?

  22. trigmogigmo

    “Ça plane pour moi” popped into my head when I read the question, but that’s not an English language song. So, first thought is: “I’ve got a bitter cup of je ne sais quois / That’s right and I’m stirring it with a monkey’s paw” from “Genius” by Warren Zevon.

    “Synth-punks” makes me slightly curious.
    “Leather-clad fuzz-pop” makes me suspicious.
    “Brooklyn synth-gazers” sounds like a snooze-fest.
    “Drone-psych warriors” sounds like a combination of the above!

    Quaint: Nothing comes to mind.

    Taylor/Kanye: Could not care in the least.

    Apology song: “Jealous Guy” ?

    I developed an early strong dislike for the Grateful Dead. My grade school friend’s older hippie brothers were totally into them.

  23. Mr. Moderator

    k., yes I got the shoegaze connection. That’s what I was referring to. I know that Emerson clip, but he’s attacking an organ. Big difference. It’s digital instruments, possibly of any sort, that lead to poor stage presence. I wonder if even digital effects boxes for guitarists are hazardous to movement and engagement with the audience:)

    Oats: YES! A Farfisa or Vox isn’t that hard to lug around, and our organ player just scored a late-’70s/early-’80s Korg organ that sounds and looks great – and is as easy to move, I believe, as a synth. It’s a shame about synths. They can be serviceable for recording, but they look terrible onstage. How about seeing a well-known piano player reduced to playing one of those synth pianos? Ugh!

  24. mikeydread

    Foreign language lyric?
    That would be Je T’aime monsieur. The lyrics of which are rather nonsensical – but somehow you get their drift. Could be all that heavy breathing.

    Synth punks is the only term that doesn’t want to make me hurl, or as we say down under, chunder.

    Quaint phrase?
    “You can leave your hat on.”
    Though also by Randy Newman:
    “Would you like to come over for tea,
    With the missus and me?
    It’s a real nice way to spend the day
    In Dayton, Ohio, in 1903.”

    Quaint enough for yer?

    Should Taylor accept?

    Hell, yes. The dear girl has done so little else of gracious note that this might be a chance to show that she is more than grasping wannabe.
    (My daughter is a big fan so I quite well acquainted with Swift’s work.)

    Favourite apology song?
    Bigmouth Strikes Again by The Smiths
    “Sweetness, I was only joking when I said
    I’d like to mash every tooth in your head…

    Otherwise, Jealous Guy by John Lennon. And I don’t even mind hearing Bryan Ferry work it over.

    First song I remember strongly disliking?
    Anything and everything by Billy Idol. Hideous and fake and so, so dumb.

  25. What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?

    Eres Tu. Smash hit in early 70s.

    Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

    They’re all annoying so they all give me cramps.

    Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    Whomp-bomp-a-luma-a-whomp-bam-boom!

    Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?
    F-no. Kanye’s a tool.

    What’s your favorite apology song?
    All Apologies – Nirvana

    What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    Steely Dan. Although I’ve come to like some of their stuff, as a pre-teen and teenager, I could not take this pretentious crap and would either turn the dial or leave the room when they appeared.

  26. hrrundivbakshi

    Quick: What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?

    “Vous etre belle, mama, girls and boys” — Prince, “Girls and Boys”

    Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

    * Brooklyn synth-gazers — UGH.
    * Drone-psych warriors — GROAN.
    * Leather-clad fuzz-pop — HMM.
    * Synth-punks — YAWN.

    Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    “I’ll take afternoon tea.” — “Afternoon Tea,” Kinks

    Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?

    Huh?

    What’s your favorite apology song?

    “I’m Sorry” by the Fabulous Thunderbirds may not be my fave, but it’s pretty straight-to-the-point: “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, for all the things I’ve done.”

    What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    There were some songs on my Disney movie themes collection LP that were real needle-lifters. Put on “Bare Necessities” again — now that was a rocker!

  27. 1. What’s the first non-English language lyric:

    “jamais toujours faim de toi” – well, it’s a mixed language song.

    2. Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

    Probably makes me dislike Pitchfork, or the writer, more than the band. Can I say all of them?

    3 Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    I wanna hold your hand.

    4. Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?

    Taylor should admit Kanye was right, then she should go away.

    5. What’s your favorite apology song?
    Harold Melvin and the Bluenotes -I Miss You. Great “come back baby” kind of tune with a long, somewhat absurd spoken-word testimonial in the middle.

    6. What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    I might also say it was outgrowing Kiss.

    Speaking of foreign language tunes, what do you make of this Soviet prock song?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFDjl-ugDLI&feature=related

  28. ladymisskirroyale

    I’m entering in to the fray a bit late here. I agree with several of the earlier responses:

    1. With BigSteve: “Voulez-vous couchez avec moi, ce soir.” Also: “Le Freak, C’est Chic” or “Je T’aime….Moi, Non Plus.”

    2. More examples of rock spin, and brings to mind the quote: “Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.” Evocative, but more about marketing than anything else. I wonder which bands they paired with those terms? I wouldn’t mind hearing them and deciding if their label is in accord with mine…

    3. No phrase comes to mind.

    4. I agree with the previous commentary: “Kanye is a tool.”

    5. “South Central Rain” is a great example of an apology song. I would also add the Go-Betweens’ “Apology Accepted,” and Vampire Weekend’s “I Stand Corrected.”

    6. Yuck: “Beth” by Kiss. And “Freebird.” Double Yuck.

  29. Mr. Moderator

    I’m in:

    Quick: What’s the first non-English language lyric in an English-language song that comes to mind?

    After “Michelle” is would be “Ce que je fait ce soir la?…” from “Psycho Killer”

    Which modern-day band description (courtesy of Pitchfork) gets a reaction from you, be it positive or negative?

    As already answered, the “Brooklyn synth-gazers” one most gets my goat. “Drone-psych warriors” is my runner-up; it’s hilarious.

    Quick: What’s the first quaint phrase in a song lyric that comes to mind for you?

    I had something in mind when I wrote the question, but now I can’t remember what it was… I think it was a Kinks song, so let’s say “You’re gonna look like skin and bones.”

    Should Taylor accept Kanye’s apology?

    I didn’t know this when I wrote this question, but did I read correctly that Taylor Swift performed some new song that forgives Kanye West? Do these people have no shame about playing publicity games?

    What’s your favorite apology song?

    “All Apologies” is a pretty great one that’s come to mind anytime I’ve seen this question.

    What’s the earliest band or song you recall strongly disliking?

    The earliest song may have to be my least-favorite song from one of the first albums I ever owned and loved as a young boy, The Band’s “Unfaithful Servant.” To this day the song bores the snot out of me; it’s the only song I almost always skip. The earliest band that I knew I strongly disliked in a meaningful way came about 5 years later: KISS.

Nov 292007
 

How ’bout we stir up some Dugout Chatter on this late-November day? Your candid, immediate answers will be most appreciated.

Candy Slice or Jennifer Jason Leigh’s title character from the film Georgia?

I would imagine that even those who don’t like Dylan like the copycat Steeler’s Wheel hit “Stuck in the Middle with You”. Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

Excluding the likes of Paul McCartney and Geddy Lee, who are key singer/songwriters in their bands, who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band? This excludes a great studio cat like James Jamerson and friend of RTH, Lee Sklar. The bassist can write and sing an occasional song, but I’m looking for band-oriented bassist credentials exclusively. You may ask yourself, Which band would suffer most from the loss of its bassist?

What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for? For those with less musical lingo than even myself, an example would be the 3-chord structure that’s at the root of “Louie Louie” and “Wild Thing”. You don’t need to report this pattern in musical terms; in fact, we’d all have a better understanding if you provide an example from a part where it stands out in a song you love. Mad props to any Townsperson who takes a crack at this one!

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  23 Responses to “Dugout Chatter”

  1. Candy Slice or Jennifer Jason Leigh’s title character from the film Georgia?

    Jennifer Jason Leigh as Georgia since I have no idea who Candy Slice is.

    I would imagine that even those who don’t like Dylan like the copycat Steeler’s Wheel hit “Stuck in the Middle with You”. Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

    Joe Jackson’s “Breaking Us in Two”, which is just a re-write of Badfinger’s Day After Day”, though I like both songs.

    Excluding the likes of Paul McCartney and Geddy Lee, who are key singer/songwriters in their bands, who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band? This excludes a great studio cat like James Jamerson and friend of RTH, Lee Sklar. The bassist can write and sing an occasional song, but I’m looking for band-oriented bassist credentials exclusively. You may ask yourself, Which band would suffer most from the loss of its bassist?

    Although he’s not really a songwriter, I nominate Graham Maby, who has played bass for Joe Jackson for most of the last 30 years. I can’t imagine those early JJ songs without him and on at least one occasion (the title track for Beat Crazy), he sang lead as well. He’s also provided great backing vocals over the years, too. I guess I must have JJ on the brain today or something.

    What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

    Oh, there are so many. I’d love to never read the word “quirky” to describe bands like XTC or They Might Be Giants, for starters.

    Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

    Fun House

    Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for? For those with less musical lingo than even myself, an example would be the 3-chord structure that’s at the root of “Louie Louie” and “Wild Thing”. You don’t need to report this pattern in musical terms; in fact, we’d all have a better understanding if you provide an example from a part where it stands out in a song you love. Mad props to any Townsperson who takes a crack at this one!

    I know very little about chord structure, but I’ll take a crack at it. I’ve been listening to Black Sabbath a lot lately, so I’ll go with whatever chord combinations are at the root of the riff to “Sabbath Bloody Sabbath” and “Iron Man”.

  2. JJL always

    “On the Dark Side” by John Cafferty is better than all of Springsteen’s stuff.

    Entwhistle anf JPG. There’s no WHO or ZEP without ’em.

    Shoegazer

    Sandinista or Abbey Road or Guilty

    can’t come up with any special interval.

  3. JPJ i mean

  4. BigSteve

    1. I’ve never seen Georgia, so I’ll have to go with Candy. (Matt, this was Gilda Radner character on the old SNL, kind of a cross between Joan Jett and Patti Smith, but heavily drugged out.)

    2. I’m still flummoxed by the idea that the Stealer’s Wheel song was a Dylan rip, but anyway …. When I first heard Japan’s Ghosts (which oddly was a hit in the UK), I was excited that there was a new Roxy Music record. I became a big fan of Japan and am still a fan of David Sylvian, but his appropriation of Bryan Ferry’s vocal style was pretty extreme.

    3. The Attractions without Bruce Thomas on bass would be impostors.

    4. “Having studied with pioneering minimalist LaMonte Young….”

    5. Never Mind the Bollocks. I’d like to know exactly how many tracks of overdubbed guitars there are on there.

    6. The I-IV-V-IV (Louie Louie/Wild Thing) pattern is also ubiquitous in South African and especially Zimbabwean music, although at a faster tempo, and I do love that. Same with I-IV-I-V.

    I like the corniness of the C-Am-F-G rock ballad progression.

    And I’m a sucker for big rhythm guitar I-IV riffs, like the opening bars of Start me Up or Street Fighting Man, as well as its poorer cousin, the suspended 4th.

  5. Candy Slice or Jennifer Jason Leigh’s title character from the film Georgia?

    I love Gilda Radner’s “Candy Slice” but also think JJL is pretty cool too.

    I would imagine that even those who don’t like Dylan like the copycat Steeler’s Wheel hit “Stuck in the Middle with You”. Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

    I certainly wouldn’t say I like it any better than, but upon hearing Bowie’s “Diamond Dogs” song on XPN the other night – was struck at how it was completely a Rolling Stones song/ripoff.

    Excluding the likes of Paul McCartney and Geddy Lee, who are key singer/songwriters in their bands, who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band?…Which band would suffer most from the loss of its bassist?

    Not sure I can add anything here but completely off topic: while channel surfing last night I caught a few artists from the Clapton Crossroads fest on PBS. John Mayer was terrible, Los Lobos was great, and then one of my all time favorites – Jeff Beck came out and killed. He has a young lady playing bass with him. She looks to be about 12! (is really 21 says her website). Her name is Tal Wilkenfeld. Was pleased to see that even playing Jeff’s fusion rock she stuck to 4 string bass…

    What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

    Yes, “quirky” or “joke-rock” hits a nerve…

    Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

    How about “Element of Light” by Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians (also qualifies as a fine example of “autumnal album” for me.

    Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for?…

    I’m a sucker for suspended notes or 7th chords…

  6. Definitely Candy Slice!

    “Lies” by the Knickerbockers is a great song that almost equals the early Beatles

    Defnitely Bruce Thomas or Colin Moulding

    Cliche – “Ex-addict”

    I’d like to be there for “London Calling” or the first Dukes of Stratosphear EP

    The two patterns I really love would be like (i think) C-Cm-G. Think the chorus in the Beatles “Devil in Her Heart” and the end of the chorus in the Supreme’s “Come See about Me”

    and

    The progressionof the chorus of Please Please Me

  7. Mr. Moderator

    Tremendous answers so far. Keep them coming! I’ll chime in with my own answers later, but a few notes:

    BigSteve, there is one of those VH-1 docs on the making of Never Mind the Bollocks. It’s pretty good. The breakdown of guitar overdubs is among the highlights.

    Good call on “Diamond Dogs”, Mrclean! Speaking of that Crossroads festival, I caught about 3 minutes of some guitarist leading a bassist and drummer through a Jeff Beck-crossed-with-King Crimson-crossed with Dixie Dregs-like instrumental. The guy was kind of amazing, switching back and forth between fast, noodly parts and slide guitar. He was a middle-aged guy with long hair parted down the middle. The next act was Robert Cray, at which point I changed the channel. Who was this guy?

  8. I’ve never seen Georgia, so I’ll have to go with Candy. (Matt, this was Gilda Radner character on the old SNL, kind of a cross between Joan Jett and Patti Smith, but heavily drugged out.)

    Thanks for the info. I’ve seen clips of this character on old SNL re-runs, but just never knew the character name.

  9. alexmagic

    Candy Slice or Jennifer Jason Leigh’s title character from the film Georgia?

    Can I take Jennifer Jason Leigh from Hudsucker Proxy instead?

    Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

    I’ll probably come back to this one…the previous answers and other questions bring Your Gold Dress to mind, which I probably do like as much as all the Nicky Hopkins-backed songs it’s meant to sound like, all of which I also enjoy quite a bit.

    Which band would suffer most from the loss of its bassist?

    The Bee-Gees. Maurice brings all the intangibles to the table. These intangibles include his hair.

    What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

    When someone is described as a shaman, or shaman-esque or anything related to a shaman.

    Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

    I’ll second the Dukes EP(s) and Abbey Road.

    Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for?

    That bit from While My Guitar Gently Weeps, that’s also in Babe I’m Gonna Leave You, The Move’s Words of Aaron and, even though I’m not a big fan of the song itself, 25 Or 6 To 4. And probably countless others, and may even predate all those, for all I know.

  10. saturnismine

    1. Candy Slice or Jennifer Jason Leigh’s title character from the film Georgia?

    Candy says: “Yooooo, Mick Jaggah…are the leader of hte greatest rock and roll band in the world….and you don’t even play an instrument yourSELF. Gimme Mick!”

    2. I would imagine that even those who don’t like Dylan like the copycat Steeler’s Wheel hit “Stuck in the Middle with You”.

    You have a vivid imagination, my friend.

    2a. Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

    The Knickerbockers sound like wannabe hacks to me. I like songs by the Chords, especially “I don’t wanna Know”. They were shameless Jam ripoff artists.

    3. Who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band?

    The Ox, hands down.

    4. What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

    descriptions of jangle rock that use the phrase “dulcet tones”. Ick.

    5. Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

    hmmm….Axis Bold as Love.

    6. Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for?

    How about 2 chords? A to G with “A” notes included in the G chord. The best example is in the Channel 6 Action News closing credits: “move closer to your world my friend….take a little bit of tiiiiiime.” I stole it for the end of a song called “Maybe in November”, on the PHoton Band’s second album (speaking of Autumnal stuff).

  11. mockcarr

    Candy Slice, if the cherry variety is unavailable.

    I would imagine that even those who don’t like Dylan like the copycat Steeler’s Wheel hit “Stuck in the Middle with You”.

    Eh, that song’s too clunky for me. I would let them have the ball and go home.

    Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

    I like Down With My Face On The Floor by Emitt Rhodes as much as any solo non-rockout McCartney material.

    I like the Ghost At #1 or Joining a Fan Club by Jellyfish more all but a few Queen songs.

    I don’t mind rip-off style too much as long as song itself is good and the intent is not completely crass.

    Excluding the likes of Paul McCartney and Geddy Lee, who are key singer/songwriters in their bands, who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band? This excludes a great studio cat like James Jamerson and friend of RTH, Lee Sklar. The bassist can write and sing an occasional song, but I’m looking for band-oriented bassist credentials exclusively. You may ask yourself, Which band would suffer most from the loss of its bassist?

    Mike Mills of REM. I think the Pretenders DID suffer the most by losing Pete Farndon. Lots of simple but cool bass riffs supplied. He always seemed to play the right thing.

    What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

    Eclectic. You may as well just say you don’t have the space or expertise for the adjectives needed for the description.

    Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

    VH1 has probably done this. I think I saw a Who one, which was interesting. Certainly, any Kinks album from their golden period would be interesting, athough the Davies brothers would need to have separate appointments at the console. I did that! No, it was MY idea! I remember punching you like THIS, when you said that 40 years ago! I caught something like this about Dark Side of the Moon which could be a template for compartmentalizing band member estrangment. VGPS getting this treatment might be fun. I don’t know as much about the production aspect of the Kinks as I do the other bigger 60s bands that had an influence over that side of things.

    Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for? For those with less musical lingo than even myself, an example would be the 3-chord structure that’s at the root of “Louie Louie” and “Wild Thing”. You don’t need to report this pattern in musical terms; in fact, we’d all have a better understanding if you provide an example from a part where it stands out in a song you love. Mad props to any Townsperson who takes a crack at this one!

    The kind of declining progression that sets out the rocking part of Shangri-La by the Kinks is cool. A similar example is the opening of ther verses to Tales of Brave Ulysses by Cream.
    Too many notes for what you’re saying. But, your majesty, it’s precisely the amount of notes needed, no more or less.

  12. alexmagic

    Down With My Face On The Floor is a great one. The Bowie thread reminded me that Blur’s MOR is a great Boys Keep Swingin rip-off.

    Back to the last question…I don’t want to risk over-Beatling the joint so I’ll understand if this interests no one, but I’ve had this thought for a while that I don’t have the musical vocabulary to express re: Abbey Road, and whether there’s some kind of musical through-line or structure going on with all the ascending/descending parts of I Want You/Here Comes The Sun/Because/You Never Give Me Your Money.

  13. Excluding the likes of Paul McCartney and Geddy Lee, who are key singer/songwriters in their bands, who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band?

    I’ll nominate J. Scott McClintock from Great Lakes Myth Society, who has always been a good bassist, but on their latest album has stepped up and knocked the ball out of the park completely, playing lines that are exciting, harmonically interesting, and melodic as hell, almost making the songs a duet between the vocal and the bass.

    Cameraphone video here, which nullifies the vocal but brings up the bass.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKvdXunu3Dg

    It mightn’t do it for you, but that’s exactly what i want to hear in a bassline, and there aren’t many around today who can pull that kind of bass writing off.

    Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for?

    A while ago i was experimenting with creating backing tracks purely by combining various instrumental parts of other songs together, kind of like doing mental crosswords using music in my head, and in the process I noticed how there’s certain archtypes pop songs use, the most obvious being the I, IV, V chord sequence you mention – offhand i can think of ‘Stand’ by REM, ‘Angel of the Morning’ by Juice Newton, ‘Mr E’s Beautiful Blues’ by Eels, ‘Crash’ by the Primitives, or ‘All I want’ by the Lightning Seeds.

    I also discovered two interesting things:

    Em is the chord that most songwriters use to express either discontentment or *sex*, usually playing over the subtle difference between Em and Em11.

    Most songs I unconditionally love on first hearing seem to involve a cyclical rotation between the I and the IV chord. (C and F in C Major).

    If anyone’s curious, this is what i was doing, can you spot the four songs I used in the parts of in this test, gradually introduced one by one?

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~hazchem/WantTestRendered.mp3

  14. Mr. Moderator

    Very cool, Homefrontradio! Thanks for sharing. One riff in particular stands out. I need to think about what it is and see if I can work forward from there.

    Townsman General Slocum, who’s been quiet of late (and hopefully doing well with #2), has done a lot of work along these lines.

    I’m really pleased by how many people are chiming in on this last question.

  15. alexmagic

    who’s been quiet of late (and hopefully doing well with #2)

    That’s how they got Elvis.

  16. hrrundivbakshi

    Candy Slice or Jennifer Jason Leigh’s title character from the film Georgia?

    Huh?

    I would imagine that even those who don’t like Dylan like the copycat Steeler’s Wheel hit “Stuck in the Middle with You”. Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

    Not sure how that silly Steeler’s Wheel song is meant to rip off Dylan, but, lessee… I have to admit liking a number of Fab T-birds songs better than the grizzled swamp-blues veterans they adore/pay tribute to. But I think I can come up with a better example. Mockcarr’s Emitt Rhodes example is an interesting one, as is his SHOCKING Jellyfish revelation (Mockcarr, we hardly knew ye!).

    Excluding the likes of Paul McCartney and Geddy Lee, who are key singer/songwriters in their bands, who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band?

    Gotta go with Colin Moulding… but wait, one of the reasons he kicks so much ass is because he was a better songwriter than Partridge. Hmm… well, Motorhead *is* Lemmy Kilmeister. But that’s mainly for singing/songwriting duties. Waitaminnit… oh, how ’bout Larry Graham in the Family Stone? I’m trying to avoid agreeing with Entwhistle, but It’s Hard.

    What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

    LOVED the “shaman” example. I don’t think I ever need to see the word “pastoral” in a review ever again. My pet peeve used to be “punkish urgency,” but that’s about 20 years passe’ now, I guess.

    Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

    Wow, great question! Off the top of my head:

    3. “Exile On Main Street,” Stones
    2. “Browning Bryant,” Browning Bryant (more on this soon!)
    … and, by far, my number one choice in this category:
    1. “12 Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus,” Spirit

    Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for?

    I can’t stop writing songs that include choruses that go from a m7 I to a maj IV — Em7 to A, for example. I’m trying to think of where this pops up in popular song, but struggling under the weight of a big glass of wine and a shot of rum after dinner. Trust me, it’s all over the world of rock. In general, I’m a huge pimp for 7ths, of all varieties: minor, major and normal to boot.

    Back to my booze and cake — kudos on an excellent dugout chatter session!

    HVB

  17. 2000 Man

    Candy Slice or Jennifer Jason Leigh’s title character from the film Georgia?

    I Want Candy.

    I would imagine that even those who don’t like Dylan like the copycat Steeler’s Wheel hit “Stuck in the Middle with You”. Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

    I like Lies, too. But I also like Public Execution by Mouse and the Traps as much as any real Dylan songs.

    Excluding the likes of Paul McCartney and Geddy Lee, who are key singer/songwriters in their bands, who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band? This excludes a great studio cat like James Jamerson and friend of RTH, Lee Sklar. The bassist can write and sing an occasional song, but I’m looking for band-oriented bassist credentials exclusively. You may ask yourself, Which band would suffer most from the loss of its bassist?

    I miss Bill Wyman.

    What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

    Melodic. Who needs it? I say, “Bring the ROCK!”

    Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

    Exile on Main St.

    Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for? For those with less musical lingo than even myself, an example would be the 3-chord structure that’s at the root of “Louie Louie” and “Wild Thing”. You don’t need to report this pattern in musical terms; in fact, we’d all have a better understanding if you provide an example from a part where it stands out in a song you love. Mad props to any Townsperson who takes a crack at this one!

    I guess it’s three descending chords. like in Start Me Up, but the part after the Big Riff. I really like those big, fat chords. Played fast, I think that’s heaven on earth.

  18. HVB, are you sure the m7 is the I and not the ii7, which tends to be a commonly used chord to lead into the V? (In D, that would be D, Em7, G and A). Pick a Neil Young song!

    If you’re bored of it, change it to a II7 (Em7 to E7) and you have the most important chord in folk songs behind the big three, that usually falls in the middle of a chorus. (Think of the changes beneath ‘one horse open sleigh’ in Jingle Bells). It’s great for cyclical songs to ensure the audience doesn’t want to stop singing halfway through.

  19. Mr. Moderator

    Candy Slice or Jennifer Jason Leigh’s title character from the film Georgia?

    I love JJL and Georgia’s a pretty good role of her’s but Candy Slice can’t be beat.

    Is there a copycat song that you like better than almost any song by the originator of that sound?

    Mmm… Good question. I like “Sweet Soul Music” as much as almost any Otis Redding song, but not better than my faves, “I Can’t Turn You Loose” and “Respect”. Here’s one: I think it was the hit single from the second Stone Temple Pilots album. In the video, they were playing in a desert, with lots of overexposed reds and oranges. The title may have had something to do with “the road” or driving. I like that song better than anything I’ve heard by Pearl Jam.

    Who is your Most Valuable Bassist in a band?

    Few will be surprised that I vote for Bruce Thomas in The Attractions. He’s the main attraction in so many oherwise mediocre Costello songs (eg, “5 Gears in Reverse”). Pete Fardon was a good nomination by someone else, but it’s hard to gauge who was a bigger loss for Chrissie Hynde, him or Honeyman-Scott.

    What cliched rock-crit modifier (eg, “classically trained”) could you do without having to ever read again?

    Probably “classically trained…” Just say the musician actually studied his or her instrument and practiced. They’re not playing classical music; all this phrase tells me is that they’re wasting their training.

    Which album would you most like to see a documentary on the making of, with the producer/engineer and band members breaking down track by track at the mixing board?

    I’m constantly fascinated by Get Happy!! and English Settlement, but I’ve heard Costello and Andy Partridge blabber about their work for years. Surprise me with a track-by-track documentary on Roxy Music’s first. I love the mix of speaker-shredding rock and oddball humor.

    Is there a pattern of 3 or 4 notes or chords – not the specific notes or chords but their intervals – that you’re a sucker for?

    Yes! I’m going with the note cluster that’s makes up the bassline in Otis Redding’s “I Can’t Turn You Loose” – but not just as a bassline. I love hearing that 3-note interval in either a descending or ascending direction as a melody, such as in The Kinks’ “Victoria”. Plucking out the notes on guitar, in whatever order, if I can use my first finger to third finger on the A string and then my first finger on the same beginning fret on the D string, I’m set. Any direction, any rhythmic patter. That interval couldn’t be more natural to how I feel.

    For a chord progression, I’m attracted to just about any song that goes from the soothing I to the II, such as an E to F#m or a G to Am. Probably a half dozen Lennon songs work off this pattern, including variations on the second chord, such as “Sun King”. The Clash’s play those chords aggressively in “Police and Thieves” yet it’s still a soothing sound.

  20. hrrundivbakshi

    Mod sez:

    Here’s one: I think it was the hit single from the second Stone Temple Pilots album. In the video, they were playing in a desert, with lots of overexposed reds and oranges. The title may have had something to do with “the road” or driving. I like that song better than anything I’ve heard by Pearl Jam.

    I say:

    http://images.outdoorinteractive.net/mgen/281514_d.jpg

    Come on, dude. You can do better than that! Next you’re going to tell us that Andrea Bocelli’s version of “Ave Maria” is better than Michael Bolton’s.

  21. Mr. Moderator

    Oooh, shot with his own gun! Beautiful, HVB! Now when are we getting the second part in your series of how hippies ruined Western culture?

  22. who’s been quiet of late (and hopefully doing well with #2)

    That’s how they got Elvis.

    Now THAT’S funny!

  23. Mr. Moderator

    NOW I get it! Thanks, Rick.

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