You need a Venn Diagram because Classic Rock can overlap with the other two categories a bit (see, for example, American Woman for Oldies, or Pearl Jam for Modern Rock), but basically as I see it:

Oldies are anything older than 20 years old, based in pop, and under 3 or 4 minutes.

Modern Rock started in about 1980 and contains some post punk element (even if it is just the production) no matter how watered down that element is.

Classic Rock is all other rock-based music (except for Heavy Metal) that would be most appropriately enjoyed in a venue the size of a hockey arena or bigger.

So for example
Pure Oldie – Some Kind Of Wonderful by Marvin Gaye
Oldie/Classic Rock Hybrid - Some Kind Of Wonderful by Grand Funk Railroad
Classic Rock – We’re an American Band by Grand Funk Railroad
Classic/Modern Rock Hybrid – Any anthem by U2
Modern Rock – Mathew Sweet

I was unable to come up with an example of a Oldies/Modern Hybrid. They seem like they should be polar opposites but I can’t help but think that someone like the Standels should be able to bridge the gap.

To me, the oldies station should be playing the first decade of rock, essentially 1955 - 1965, ending with Out of Our Heads. The Classic Rock station should pick up from whatever day Rubber Soul came out, with nothing older no matter how good it is, and it should end with Damn the Torpedoes at the end of 1979. Modern Rock can pick up in 1980 with New Order almost ruining everything good that Joy Division did, and essentially squeezing Spandau Ballet from their loins, until Madonna showed up. That's like three years, but it was three pretty sad ones.

Real people should listen to new stuff at least as much as old stuff, even if they're boring like me and just listen to rock music. But that's how radio should split those three sub genres up.

Whenever I listen to oldies radio in Philly, it sounds like the '50s have pretty much been phased out. Oldies now begins with the British Invasion and Motown, or maybe "Runaround Sue." Disco is now considered oldies as well. Maybe a little bit of '80s stuff, like "Walking on Sunshine."

2K's remark about listening to new stuff as much as old stuff reminded me of a moment on a recent Bob Dylan's Old Time Radio Hour.

Went something like this.

He read a listener's emai "Dear Bob. How come you play much more older stuff than newer stuff? What do you have against newer stuff? Sincerely, Greg"

Bob replies "Well Greg. I have absolutely nothing against newer stuff. It's just that there is a lot more of the older stuff."

Oldies seem to go all the way up through the sixties, and contain short singles from the pop/soul/rock and roll contexts. The moment we get into sound experiments that depart from the basics, it's not oldies anymore. It's a total shame, by the way, that the 50s have been phased out of oldies.

I think that classic rock probably includes rock and roll songs through the eighties--I have no problem with hearing The Clash, The Police, U2 on such stations. However, anything too anti-pop punk doesn't belong there, as much as I like it.

Alt rock radio should start with punk and its underground precursors and move forward to the present.

New music radio should start sucking less.

I think these categories are meaningless. At this point in history there is no history. All cultural eras exist simultaneously. "Oldies" and "classic rock" are not musicological terms but marketing formats. I don't listen to, nor do I have any desire to listen to, the radio, except for maybe ten minutes of NPR on the way to and from work.

Oldies are what your parents listen to.

I'm with you, BigSteve. I have 80 gajillion CDs to keep me entertained. I had the satellite radio for a while and I did thoroughly enjoy it. Maybe one day I'll go back to that, but I'm so done with commercial radio. If you find me listening, it's usually the college fooseball games or talk radio (the local guys mostly). If it's late enough and I happen to be out prowling the streets, I'll catch the wackiness of Coast To Coast AM. My trusty CD collection makes for my music listening, though.

TB

Oh, and I do enjoy listening to my copies of Bob's Theme Time Radio Hour.

TB

Thanks for turning my comment in to a topic!

I base this on radio format as much as personal opinion (ok more opinion!)

I consider Rock Around The Clock through Willie And The Poor Boys to be "oldies"

But oldies has to stop in 1970. "Your Song" by Elton John is the start of post-oldies IMO

Classic Rock overlaps - Magic Carpet Ride is all "classic rock" (so is Day Tripper) - Big Log by Robert Plant or Yes' Owner Of A Lonely Heart is the "end" for classic rock..again just my Opinion

XM radio has Classic Rock set up as two eras VINYL (65-78) and CASSETTE (78-89) which allows for 80's music to be classic rock pt 2 -- Stones' Start Me Up through She Talks To Angels - Black Crowes IMO)

Modern Rock overlaps - The Clash, Blondie, Takling Heads, U2, Costello start Modern Rock - I guess Kings Of Leon currently bookend Modern Rock

This is only for pop/rock/hit music of course, other styles have their own time lines

cdm's Venn diagram approach is excellent. I have similar thoughts to jungleland2 and some others, although I believe Oldies should run into mid-70s AM pop right at the brink of stone-cold singer-songwriter crap (eg, "Sometimes When We Touch") and outright disco. Harry Chapin's "Cat's Cradle" and George McRae's "Rock Me Baby" are acceptable on Oldies radio, but KC and the Sunshine Band and beyond, in terms of disco, can only be played on a Saturday night, summertime live broadcast from a cheesy shore club.

I object to tuneful, mid-70s FM stuff like "Fly Like an Eagle" on Oldies radio, and later '70s/early '80s pastiches of "oldies" music, like "Still Rock 'n Roll to Me" and "Old Time Rock 'n Roll" are not allowed under any circumstances, not even promos.

Classic Rock, in terms of The Who, should begin with "I Can See for Miles" and "Pinball Wizard," excluding for no good reason all other songs on Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy. On the other hand, "All Day and All of the Night" and "You Really Got Me" are Classic Rock, but not any Kinks that would follow - excepting "Lola" - until the occasional airing of one of those Low Budget-era songs. No explanations needed.

I disagree that Classic Rock should broaden to include relatively unsuccessful bands in their time, like The Clash. Yeah, they're cool and accepted now, but back then they barely got played until Combat Rock. If Classic Rock radio needs to play "Should I Stay or Should I Go," more power to them. It's OK to play U2's big songs prior to Springsteen's dropping the E Street Band and marrying the LA chick (ie, the official end of the Classic Rock era), however, because they broke through and became Classic within the Classic Rock era. Again, though, anything after The Boss married the model is off the table, including The Boss' own Patty Scialfa-E Street Band-9/11-Inspired Comeback Era material.

Although released before The Boss ditched New Jersey, any prog-rock released once band members got "stylish" haircuts and outfits with padded shoulders are off the table. All that Trevor Rabin-led Yes stuff, for instance, falls by the wayside. The only exceptions are Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins-led Genesis, because that stuff was always totally dorky and meant to satisfy a particular segment of Classic Rock fans. I mean, name a good guitar solo in a Genesis song. Sheesh!

I can't speak for Modern Rock, but I sense that it's bound to suck no matter how you slice it.

All other music should not be played on commercial radio, leaving older heads like myself a lifetime to grumble.

i like the idea of "Owner of a Lonely Heart" as the end of classic rock.

oldies-1952-1978
(rock around the clock through disco)

eighties-1978-1985
(my sharona through the reflex)

modern rock-1991-now
(teen spirit through whatever band of 20 year olds is on itunes today)

classic rock-1970-1980
led zep's career span

As a radio format, I think "oldies" is a moving target. The playlist of most "oldies stations" usually includes the better pop and poppy-rock songs from the period 45-30 years before the present.

The first decade of rock'n'roll hits are now begining to become too old to be "oldies." The really great ones might hang around a little longer, but the list of 1950's songs being played anywhere except specialty shows is getting pretty short.

Man, I dropped Satellite Radio after the merger. I liked Sirius' music and I swear when they merged they turned that part of it over to XM. The final straw was the day I flipped over to Classic Vinyl and they were playing Another Brick in the Wall. I flipped to Classic Rewind and they were playing the same thing. Then I flipped to The Vault, which I think changed to Deep Tracks or something, and listened to some Dave Mason unknown even more than all his other songs are song, and they played Another Brick in the Wall.

Why pay for that?

90's Green Day has begun rotation on classic rock radio, so i suppose to they base it soley on the age of the music.

Oldies: Anything I like that in certain situations I might be embarrassed to admit, i.e., Every Mother's Son's "Come On Down To My Boat"

Classic Rock: Anything from my high school, "I'm a music fan now" days, i.e., Thin Lizzy, "The Boys Are Back In Town

Modern Rock: Anything from when I started to turn into a music snob--music I look down on others for not liking, and am jealous when somebody knows more about it/loves it more than I do, i.e. Husker Du's New Day Rising.