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chickenfrank on All-Star Jam
I've never tested this theory, but I think I could listen to either Day Tripper, Jumpin Jack Flash, or Lola twenty-five times in a row and still not get tired of hearing any one of them. Lola is perfect.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on All-Star Jam
L-O-L-A Lola! https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/arts/music/kinks-lola-ray-davies.html?action=click&module=Features&pgtype=Homepage
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on All-Star Jam
Al, that song and video were fascinating! Catchy to the point of annoying! The video kept making me imagine an outtake from The Wall, in which Bob Geldof's drugged-out Roger Waters character is watching himself give that performance on TV.
BigSteveBigSteve on Against All Odds: Lou Reed and the Special Olympics of Rock ‘n Roll
Have you ever noticed how Lou's picking hand is always so inflexible? It looks like a fist. Any guitar teacher would tell him to loosen up and let the hand move a little bit. The live versions of Coney Island Baby fall into the trap of trying to boost the song's intensity. The original album version retains just the right balance of wistfulness and ruthlessness, and the ending feels genuinely moving to me. These two live endings just seem hyped up in a way that doesn't serve to emotion of the song.
E. Pluribus Gergely on All-Star Jam
I know this is beating a dead horse, but I listened to Sticky Fingers today and once again worked myself into a tizzy. Was it really necessary to have Bobby Keys fuck up "Bitch" with his Tonight Show Doc Severinsen horn work? Honestly, it's antithetical to everything the Stones are supposed to represent. Jagger should have stood up to Richards and said something like, "You know what, man? I'm sick of having your Ed McMahon sycophant heroin buddy around, fucking all our songs up. Get rid of him, or I'm out of here." If anyone has a recording of "Bitch" without the horns, let me know. My dream find is getting into a tape vault loaded with band member conversations regarding the ups and downs of the creative process: McCartney walking out in a huff during the "She Said, She Said" session when he showed up late and found out that Harrison handled his bass chores, Charlie Watts being told that Jimmy Miller would be playing the trickier Stones' drum tracks, the Nashville guys' private conversations about Dylan during the recording of Blonde on Blonde, that kind of thing. One last thing that has absolutely nothing to do with any of this: Pod Save America is absolutely terrific. Thanks, Little Mo!
BigSteveBigSteve on All-Star Jam
The spasmodic 1974 Lou scares me, but not like an actual tough guy would. He looks like he weighs about 99 lbs. It's hard to believe he made some of his best music during his speed and peroxide era.
BigSteveBigSteve on All-Star Jam
Speaking of EC, dig this long interview between Elvis and Iggy Pop that was posted on the Rolling Stone website today: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/elvis-costello-iggy-pop-meeting-1097849/
geo on Dugout Chatter
CDM said: "The “Rock Era” lasted multiple generations. So punks shouldn’t have been listening to Bo Diddley? Got it." Punks were part of the death throes. It was a niche movement that rebelled against the then dominant "classic rock" format which tried to freeze the dialectic in some platonic but washed out 1971 ideal. So yes, punks in the year zero might have had interest in Bo Diddley, but no average rock radio listener at the time did. The emergence of Nirvana is often described at punk breaking through to the mainstream, which I wouldn't disagree with, but that is also the moment when things like rap music became a pretty potent stand in for white suburban rebellion in lieu of rock. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that there is no new rock music worth listening to, just that the genre itself has become a genre of "Adult" choice, rather than a sign of tribal, youthful animalism, or whatever that word was EPG used to denote quality back in the day.
E. Pluribus Gergely on All-Star Jam
Indeed. Magma's healing powers are legendary!
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on All-Star Jam
It would be nice if we had a favorite clips section. If we can get the time and energy to take the Hall to it's next stage of development, that's worth designing. Magma heals all wounds, doesn't it?
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on Dugout Chatter
EPG, I don't hold grudges. I told you what I had to tell you. You did likewise. Funny, though, that we had our conference call this evening to make that difficult decision for the good of humanity. I hadn't seen your note when we spoke!
E. Pluribus Gergely on All-Star Jam
Agreed! It's one of my favorites. The moderator had it up here some time ago. We should have an area on the site for our favorite clips. How 'bout it Moderator? Can the back end set that up for us?
al on All-Star Jam
EPG, there is really nothing to add to the uploader's description - "Legendary singer Christian Vander killing it"
E. Pluribus Gergely on Dugout Chatter
One last thing about this whole Dad Rock thing. I played the Blinkin cuts for my wife. Her response is as follows: "You know what that reminds me of? When you're at the beach, and there's nowhere good to go for food, so you wind up at one of those places that has a big outdoor deck. The food is awful, and you're surrounded by people you'd never ever want to be around. You eat mozzarella sticks that give you stomach cramps while a band like that plays. And when the lead singer says, 'We're gonna play a couple of originals for ya' , that's more or less the final straw and you leave." Again, I'll be glad when Blinkin's so busy figuring out what to do with the mess Trump left behind that he'll never find time to write and record again. That said, it is nice to know that when January 20th arrives, we'll actually have cabinet members with legitimate credentials.
E. Pluribus Gergely on All-Star Jam
For anyone I've offended up here, I offer the following as an olive branch. My apology begins at 1:36: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_OQNptgv7g Sincerely, E. Pluribus Gergely
al on Dugout Chatter
How about the subcategory Dad Christmas Rock? Presenting Mitch Ryder's Christmas album https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9qrf0wTYbs&list=OLAK5uy_k-ONhuHL01fyjWJfigiRxYKbQa1gFMlnc&index=1 Who knew such a thing existed? And based on this, the Detroit Wheels played a bigger part than anyone suspected.
al on All-Star Jam
Check out this song/video that my son showed me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VsmF9m_Nt8 The artist is Adriano Celentano. Bio here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriano_Celentano Song details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisencolinensinainciusol To quote: The song is intended to sound to its Italian audience as if it is sung in English spoken with an American accent, vaguely reminiscent of Bob Dylan; however, the lyrics are deliberately unintelligible gibberish with the exception of the words "all right". It's really good - a great rocking song, great high and low concept, nice video (stick around for the chorus line at the end; gams that Micky Chicken would love).
al on Dugout Chatter
Catching up on the last 3 dozen posts in this thread has my head spinning. I'm not sure which side I'm supporting with this statement but I'll state it unequivocally - Ian Hunter's 21st century rock & roll output (and that means from age 61 to 81) is superior to his 20th century output, Mott and all.
al on Against All Odds: Lou Reed and the Special Olympics of Rock ‘n Roll
For two classes of people - those who like Street Legal and those who don't like Street Legal - I need to again recommend Robbie Fulks' remake of that album (or, as he terms it, a reversioned recording) entitled "16". Easily the greatest Bob Dylan covers album I'm aware of (and I have more than any sane or insane person should have).
al on All-Star Jam
A little internet research shows that this Lou Reed concert occurred just a few weeks after Lou flunked out of one of those Rock & Roll Camps. Although there was one site that said he was expelled when Daltry and Jagger went to the headmaster and said "Either he goes or we stop our "How To Be A Rock & Roll Frontman' class." On the plus side, I think this is Lou the way he was meant to sound.
chickenfrank on All-Star Jam
OK. I promise to let this go, but I cracked up reading the Costello link you included and found him miraculously participating in our Dad rock debate in that article: "This idea has been sold to us, usually by people with no talent, that music must be about eternal youth. In the popular music legend, somehow, you become feeble over 30. People that say Bob Dylan can’t sing anymore have literally no idea what singing is." Guess that puts Elvis on Team Chicken!
E. Pluribus Gergely on Dugout Chatter
Moderator, I just passed your house about an hour ago. I got a nice record collection in Barrington. I would have stopped to say hi, but I decided that I wanted to keep my teeth.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on All-Star Jam
I LOVE that Lou Reed clip, cdm. I hadn't seen that for so long. I think it's the origin of the old RTH term Mandancing. Great porn staches and bassist Prakish John to boot! Jon Anderson from Yes is a really awkward frontman, which is especially painful to watch as he shakes a little tambourine during the band's 3-minute instrumental passages.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on Dugout Chatter
THAT makes more sense than spouting off a bunch of insults like you're welding an automatic weapon! Thanks.
E. Pluribus Gergely on Dugout Chatter
The truth of the matter is that you're cheating yourself out of something bigger and more important, but the comfort of routine isn't going to allow any of that to happen. And that's a real fucking shame.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on All-Star Jam
No, I meant that he digs that album, and now he can join the three of you in calling bullshit on my inability to get past fucking flute flourishes.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on Dugout Chatter
There's nothing to argue over, EPG. You hold a weird, didactic point of view on this matter that I get, but I don't see the point in ranting over. You stopped making music in your mid-30s. I agree that 99% of rock artists' output suffers over time, but so do most things in the arts and in nature. Hold onto your beliefs all you want. My perspective on what it meant to be young and full of vim and vigor isn't going anywhere, but if I don't continue my journey through time doing what I love doing, seeing the world through my tools for making sense of life, I'm cheating myself. That's how I feel about it. My failed career as a sculptor will have to wait.
cdmcdm on Dugout Chatter
Mod, good call with Nick Lowe. Tom Waits fits into this category too, as do the guys in Los Lobos.
chickenfrank on Dugout Chatter
OK. Respect for giving a number. I'm probably being so unrelenting because I know you are "mostly" right. But, only mostly. You know I'm never going to stop rocking. There's no way I could disappoint my fans like that.
E. Pluribus Gergely on Dugout Chatter
Yet another short but sweet laugh out loud post. Again, why haven’t you thought about doing something more elaborate with a talent I consider enviable? Cut off point is mid thirties. I think that's a fair ball park. I thought about giving a specific number, but that's only going to give the Moderator a reason to nitpick and waste time with posts about Life's Rich Pageant, which is what he usually does when he can't put together an argument that makes sense.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on Dugout Chatter
Yes, EPG, Nick Lowe has had moments well past his 30s that transcend what he did in his prime.
E. Pluribus Gergely on All-Star Jam
From what I read, Costello appears to have no issues with Court and Spark. Neither do I. I think you misread his take on the album. I don't recall what your beefs are with Life's Rich Pageant, probably because they didn't make sense the first 40 times I tried to read through them. I don't recall a lot about the album. I do recall that I thought 'Fall On Me" was great, but the rest of the album was kind of weak. I gave up on them at that point.
chickenfrank on Dugout Chatter
I am not going down the rabbit hole of listing my hero's post mid-thirties worthwhile output until you give me the age cutoff of when rockers need to put down their tools. Not to spoil too much of the plot, but all the dames love Micky Chicken until it's revealed in the final act that he's actually a hermaphrodite. It's a hell of a twist!
E. Pluribus Gergely on Dugout Chatter
Hey Mike, suck on my big ten inch prostate. And when you're done doing that, send me volumes 1 and 2 of your Haiku series. I have no doubt whatsoever that what whatever's in there will be way more interesting than any Dad Rock pop turd. When I'm through with that, send the rest of your new stuff. It'll be great to see something, anything that looks like artistic growth. You guys are incredible. Look at your heroes. Have any of them done anything worth a shit popwise after their mid thirties? No. Hate being a prick, but you got this whole ball rolling with your always laugh out loud posts. Really, why haven't you thought about doing something more elaborate with a talent I consider enviable?
cdmcdm on All-Star Jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li3Lq6tMe1k Here's a video of Lou Reed from Paris in 1974. I've seen clips of this synched up with the version of Sweet Jane from Rock and Roll Animal but that's inaccurate because there's no Steve Hunter or Dick Wagner, so this is the first time I've seen the video properly synched with the audio. Aside from Lou, are there any other performers who A) look as awkward on stage because they are going for something and wildly missing the mark, and B) if they actually accomplished what they seem to be attempting, it wouldn't look nearly as cool as they seem to think it would? Van Morrison from the Last Waltz comes to mind but at least he seems like he's lost in the exuberance of the moment. I think you can actually see Lou thinking, " ...and 1 and 2 and 3 and spin!" Lou seems determined to push past it with some tough guy bravado and a bunch of amphetamines, but I suspect he knows that he's not really selling it. That Lou Reed video of Coney Island Baby hinted at it but he's cleverly anchored himself with the guitar, restricting is movements and keeping himself largely out of harm's way.
chickenfrank on Dugout Chatter
That's all I wanted to hear, EPG. Send me your address. I want to send you Volumes 3-7 of my haiku series (those 5 volumes are the best ones). I want to send you my screenplay about a hard-boiled 1940s era detective in 1940s California named Micky Chicken. I have hours of video of interpretive dance to share. My opera is really coming together. You're really going to enjoy the epic rawness of all this output, and not the boring repetitiveness of what I actually know how to do. Everyone knows changing your artistic format is just like changing a pair of pants. Right, McCartney? Right, Costello? Now where's my copy of Tarantula?
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on All-Star Jam
Here's one of those "most influential records" pieces that Elvis Costello is so good at responding to. I love the fact that he takes an outright potshot at two producers - no-holds barred - but I'm going to get it from a Coronavirus Triangle of friends re: his take on Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark album. https://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/elvis-costello-on-the-music-of-his-life/
geo on Against All Odds: Lou Reed and the Special Olympics of Rock ‘n Roll
I like the little cheer that goes up in the crowd on that first video after Lou strums a few chords that could be the start of at least a half dozen of his songs. Did they know what was coming or did half of them think it was a downtempo version of Sweet Jane or an understated Heroine?
geo on Against All Odds: Lou Reed and the Special Olympics of Rock ‘n Roll
I mentioned to Al a couple of years back that despite the deserved high praise heaped on Blood on the Tracks, there is not a song on there that does not have at least one horrible line that should have been excised on the spot. It's very weird. I actually have a soft spot for Desire, which may be Special Olympics material. It seemed like after the tight focus of BOTT (despite the lyrical CLANGS), he tried to revisit his entire early career, including the protest and surrealism, with little regard for coherence. It's got some terrible stuff on there, particularly Joey, but it feels like he got the shackles off and didn't really care if he stepped in it. I think I feel the same way about XTC's Oranges & Lemons, which always seemed like Partridge's counter reaction to the discipline imposed by Rundgren on Skylarking.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on Dugout Chatter
Right on, misterioso. I've had to endure EPG and this "rock 'n roll is for the young" pose since about 2 weeks after we first became friends, when we were still young and when I spotted that copy of REM's Lifes Rich Pageant at the front of his "recently playing" stack. It's like an endless scene from one of those early rock 'n roll movies with an appearance by Alan Freed, to help the parents calm down over the ruckus of that wild, new youthful sound. Meanwhile, my dear friend has been glorifying hillbilly music and Depression-era jazz 78s, or what some people who were once young might have considered Olde Thyme Musick. I'm going to root through his basement and report back to the Hall someday on how many copies of Lifes Rich Pageant he now owns. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I can see why he would have once liked that album. Meanwhile, whenever we can get back to playing out; going to shows; yelling over each other at loud, packed parties, EPG has hereby forfeited his right to insincerely compliment any of us who still make music, simply because we're happy doing what we're doing. He was never that good with faux sincerity as it was.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on Against All Odds: Lou Reed and the Special Olympics of Rock ‘n Roll
Misterioso, in case I wasn't clear, I wasn't saying that there weren't brilliant missteps in Dylan's career past John Wesley Harding, if anyone considers that album less-than-a-clean landing, just that Dylan's catalog past that point does not contain the sort of missed landings that inform *me* of Dylan's further greatness. (And I do consider him an undeniable titan despite not even being too hot on Blood on the Tracks.) However...your mention of Street Legal reminds me that I do like that album in just this way. Then I was reminded of his reggae-ish version of "Shelter From the Storm" on that live album with The Band, the one with the brown-bordered cover and the raised lighters. That's another example, *for me*.
misteriosomisterioso on Dugout Chatter
geo indeed nailed it, and his simple but spot-on formulation is helpful since it liberates me from having to think in terms of this category at all. Fact is, I don't care if something l like is Dad rock or alt-rock or oldies or disco or any of the categories that can be formulated. Happily, I am way past caring if anyone is impressed by the music I like listening to. Like Cream, I feel free.
misteriosomisterioso on Against All Odds: Lou Reed and the Special Olympics of Rock ‘n Roll
Allow me to meander around this topic since, like cdm, I am not sure I fully understand the concept. But it gives me the opportunity to mention that I can't think of an artist I regard more highly than Lou Reed, with a pretty huge body of work, where I feel like I actually connect to, or even get, such a small percentage of it, or can even except on rarely occasions be bothered with much of. And yet my affection and basic admiration for him remains. And I'll take the bait on Mod's Dylan bootleg series sniffiness. A) I would assert that Dylan is hands down the greatest artist produced by the worlds of folk/rock/whatever, to say nothing of very likely one of the two or three greatest artist America has produced in the past 60 years, and B) I would assert, and I think there is no basis for contradiction, that any attempt to come to grips with Dylan's career must involve the various Bootleg Series installments (though certainly not all of them equally). With the possible exceptions Prince, there is no other artist I am aware of whose "official" career is so often dwarfed by the vast and incredibly rich "unofficial" one. So, to me, it is extremely easy and, really, something of a no-brainer to have high regard for Dylan's career up to and including John Wesley Harding: there are hidden riches on those Bootleg Series releases for this period, yes, but the "official" material is so great that it doesn't really matter. For the rest of Dylan's career there are inconsistencies, stunning lapses of judgement, failures to distinguish the great from the garbage, and periods of losing the plot. And there are stunning achievements, sometimes right next to the garbage, sometimes hidden by the garbage, and all too often, only to be found on those 873 bootleg series releases. So, yeah, mixed landings like Street Legal, the unholy mess of the Born Again years that is completely transformed in light of, yes, the Bootleg Series, Oh Mercy, Time Out of Mind--those in many ways cut closer to the bone than the absolute genius of Highway 61 or Blonde on Blonde (which I adore no less for that), because they are the work of a flawed human achieving greatness, not the absolute greatness of a 25 year old who knows nothing of failure.
cdmcdm on Dugout Chatter
My favorite part of this whole discussion is that for the past few years, I've been channeling most of my energies into French lounge pop songs. I just want to reserve the right to switch back to garden variety pop/rock when I'm done.
E. Pluribus Gergely on Dugout Chatter
Honestly, for the most part, we're all in the senior citizen age range. Is rock really the forum one should use at this stage of the game to express one's self? Rather than piss away time using the outline of a pop song to discuss the ups and down of marriage, job related issues, kid rearing problems, etc., it might be better to use that time to familiarize one's self with a new form, be it a novel, screenplay, TV series, . . .hell, painting seems like it would make better sense. Honestly, you're gonna cram 50 or 60 years of lunacy into a 3 minute rock song? And you can't figure out why the general public doesn't seem to be thrilled with it? Thank God for solid health insurance that covers trips to the psychologist. I consider everyone up here skillful enough to crank out something more worthwhile than a half assed Dad Rock pop turd. And I so look forward to reading, hearing, and seeing those works that'll be so much more audience worthy than Chickenfrank's big ten inch prostate.
cdmcdm on Dugout Chatter
That first sentence was a response to GEO, the second to EPG.
cdmcdm on Dugout Chatter
The "Rock Era" lasted multiple generations. So punks shouldn't have been listening to Bo Diddley? Got it. My approach is much simpler, and really only has one rule (aside from common sense stuff like no shorts on stage and no pointy headstock guitars): When recording music or putting together a set, put out something that you'd like to see. If other people like it, regardless of age, all the better.
E. Pluribus Gergely on Dugout Chatter
Answer to the first question: The question's lack of clarity makes it impossible to answer. Answer to the second question: 4 dads.+ 4 rock like instruments = dogshit.
Mr. ModeratorMr. Moderator on Dugout Chatter
You didn't answer my question, EPG. Please review and reply to the specific question. Thanks.
geo on Dugout Chatter
CDM: What Chicken said about your examples. At one time rock music was the coin of the realm for young folks. But that was a long time ago. Even then, there was an occasional oddball that might've been more interested in Thelonious Monk or Broadway musicals, even though they were "Dad" music in those days. Yes, there are young people still interested in rock, but the interest in historical rock precedents is antithetical to the "This now" aesthetic of rock at its apex.

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