Rock Frauds
By Mr. Moderator on Dec 29, 2009
In discussing the legendary Beatles hanger-on and rock fraud Magic Alex last night, Townsman Oats wondered what other rock frauds must have weasled their way into the inner workings of successful rock bands and become part of the "creative process." For purposes of this discussion, let's leave out band managers and other "suits." That lot tends to be, if at all competent, full of hot air. We're looking for people who've worked their way into recording sessions, songwriting credits, and the like while displaying no actual talent. Also for purposes of this discussion, we will not allow the inclusion of spouses, like Yoko Ono and Linda McCartney.
32 comments
Comment from: misterioso [Member] 
I don't see how you can accuse Magic Alex of being a fraud. I think the crisp drum sound on Abbey Road speaks to the effectiveness of the invisible force field he created around Ringo.
12/29/09 @ 10:52
Comment from: shawnkilroy [Member]
folk fraud: Bob Neuwirth
Not exactly the same thing, but truly talented rock legends can be frauds too when they try to impose their vision on a newer genre, like:
David Bowie on Raw Power
Todd Rundegren on New York Dolls
Nick Mason on that Damned record, and even Ray Manzerek on those X records.
Paul Simon, David Byrne, and Sting have also been fraudulent in yet a 3rd way, by co-opting world and jazz musics to suit their white guy needs.
that creep in the Brian Jonestown Massacre who was in charge of taking heroin and playing tamborine.
Not exactly the same thing, but truly talented rock legends can be frauds too when they try to impose their vision on a newer genre, like:
David Bowie on Raw Power
Todd Rundegren on New York Dolls
Nick Mason on that Damned record, and even Ray Manzerek on those X records.
Paul Simon, David Byrne, and Sting have also been fraudulent in yet a 3rd way, by co-opting world and jazz musics to suit their white guy needs.
that creep in the Brian Jonestown Massacre who was in charge of taking heroin and playing tamborine.
12/29/09 @ 11:36
Comment from: cherguevarra [Member]
Stu Sutcliff? Wasn't he just John's friend and couldn't really play?
12/29/09 @ 11:41
The dude in the Happy Mondays who's sole job it was to just dance was rather fraud-like. Now, the band claimed he was an essential ingredient, a catalyst, much like that Brian Jonestown Massacre fraud dude. Actually, I'd argue that the Happy Mondays themselves were a kind of fraud.
12/29/09 @ 11:47
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
Eugene Landy. Hell, while we're there, Mike Love.
Incidentally, am I the only one who thinks that pic of Magic Alex looks like Beck?
Incidentally, am I the only one who thinks that pic of Magic Alex looks like Beck?
12/29/09 @ 11:58
Comment from: sammymaudlin [Member]
I'd say Sid Vicious but his Look and 'tude were valuable.
If this were a Battle Royal I'd be taking the belt right now for my man Gerard Malanga.
If this were a Battle Royal I'd be taking the belt right now for my man Gerard Malanga.
12/29/09 @ 12:00
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I was wondering last night, when Oats brought this up, about all those dancing fools from the late-'80s and early-'90s. I guess the "toaster" guys in ska bands actually did something beside getting the party started.
Eugene Landy is a great one. Bob Neuwirth too, but I was listening to X last night, and whatever Manzarek did for them, even if it was nothing, was spot on. Bowie on Raw Power, though, is a good example of what shawnkilroy is getting at.
Eugene Landy is a great one. Bob Neuwirth too, but I was listening to X last night, and whatever Manzarek did for them, even if it was nothing, was spot on. Bowie on Raw Power, though, is a good example of what shawnkilroy is getting at.
12/29/09 @ 12:01
Comment from: sammymaudlin [Member]
misty- I thought that was Beck when I saw it.
Incidentally RTH really should try to track down some of these frauds for interviews. I bet we could get to Magic.
Incidentally RTH really should try to track down some of these frauds for interviews. I bet we could get to Magic.
12/29/09 @ 12:03
Hell, while we're there, Mike Love.
You don't wanna go down that road, do you?
12/29/09 @ 12:06
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I'm backing Mike Love in the Beach Boys. His contributions to the stuff leading up to Pet Sounds (ie, the best stuff) are essential. His role as the band's no-nonsense, true believer and pep rally leader is what kept them from being some hairless, rock nerd's dream, like The Zompbies, only to be known to the general public for a hit song or two.
12/29/09 @ 12:13
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
According to his wikipedia entry, Magic Alex is suing the NY Times for calling him a "charlatan." So, maybe this thread should be renamed "Rock Visionaries Whose Brilliance Was Not Fully Appreciated In Its Time."
12/29/09 @ 12:13
Comment from: dbuskirk [Member]
I know there is a case to be made for Mike Love, still it is sad to hear someone take the case...
12/29/09 @ 12:27
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Sad or BRAVE, db? One day Love will thank me with a command performance of "Kokomo."
12/29/09 @ 12:34
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
I believe Andy Warhol was listed as 'producer' of the first Velvet Underground album.
And I have my doubts that Andrew Loog Oldham ever actually produced anything, though he may have occasionally been in the studio while the Stones recorded.
And I have my doubts that Andrew Loog Oldham ever actually produced anything, though he may have occasionally been in the studio while the Stones recorded.
12/29/09 @ 12:37
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
Mr. Mod, you must work as a public defender. Even the lowest criminal is entitled to competent representation. So, I applaud this. It is true, Love was no fraud. His contributions were real, albeit loathsome. Case dismissed.
The attack on the Zombies, though, was clearly an attempt to distract the jury. Surely such methods cannot succeed with such an intelligent group as his here assembled.
But is it the "rock nerd" that is "hairless" here or is it the dream or is it the Zombies themselves who are follicly challenged? This was not clear.
But do rethink the Zombies. Whenever You're Ready.
The attack on the Zombies, though, was clearly an attempt to distract the jury. Surely such methods cannot succeed with such an intelligent group as his here assembled.
But is it the "rock nerd" that is "hairless" here or is it the dream or is it the Zombies themselves who are follicly challenged? This was not clear.
But do rethink the Zombies. Whenever You're Ready.
12/29/09 @ 12:46
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
misterioso, thanks for pointing out the flaws in my sentence structure. It was the Zombies to whom I attributed the characterization of hairlessness - metaphorically speaking. I actually like the Zombies a lot, but I was saying that they lacked any kind of manly snazz that would have allowed them to reach further than they did. No, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm a firm believer that, in most cases, rock 'n roll benefits from a little manly snazz to bring the music home for all it's worth.
12/29/09 @ 13:03
Comment from: misterioso [Member]
Short on manly snazz, yes, but long on A-levels. I crack up every time I hear them "rave up" on "Roadrunner."
12/29/09 @ 13:10
Comment from: alexmagic [Member]
How quickly everyone forgets that time The Doobie Brothers put out that press release claiming that "some dude Skunk knows" had created a working cold fusion generator. All this talk about a "clean, limitless source of energy" that the Doobies were going to provide, and then Skunk Baxter quietly leaves the band in 1979 and "Doobie Power" is never mentioned again.
12/29/09 @ 13:32
My hatred for Dr. Landy runs deep in ways I can't fully articulate. Let's just say that I was glad when I found out that he had died. He's right up there with Mark David Chapman for people the world could have done without.
I do not like Mike Love. I just don't like him. He comes across as a sad and bitter man. However, Mod's assessment of his contributions to the band are (mostly) correct. He has been the flag bearer all these years for better and for worse. I will politely disagree that their best stuff happened before Pet Sounds, but the charts and record returns would argue otherwise. Maybe I have a love/hate thing for Love.
Mod, just don't make a case for Mike's solo record Looking Back With Love, a title that still manages to make me laugh a little.
TB
I do not like Mike Love. I just don't like him. He comes across as a sad and bitter man. However, Mod's assessment of his contributions to the band are (mostly) correct. He has been the flag bearer all these years for better and for worse. I will politely disagree that their best stuff happened before Pet Sounds, but the charts and record returns would argue otherwise. Maybe I have a love/hate thing for Love.
Mod, just don't make a case for Mike's solo record Looking Back With Love, a title that still manages to make me laugh a little.
TB
12/29/09 @ 13:49
Comment from: junkintheyard [Member]
Stu Sutcliffe was hardly a fraud. True that he couldn't play to save his life but he bowed out of the band on his own, choosing to live with Astrid.
I second the vote for Land and Manson.
I second the vote for Land and Manson.
12/29/09 @ 15:39
Comment from: eh [Member]
I think Magic Alex looks more like Maury Finkel, Founder of Finkel Fixtures. The biggest lighting fixture chain in the Southland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra70O9nps6E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra70O9nps6E
12/29/09 @ 16:57
My hatred for Dr. Landy runs deep in ways I can't fully articulate. Let's just say that I was glad when I found out that he had died. He's right up there with Mark David Chapman for people the world could have done without.
Perhaps and yeah the guy was a scumbag, but without Dr. Landy, Brian Wilson probably wouldn't be alive today.
I do not like Mike Love. I just don't like him. He comes across as a sad and bitter man. However, Mod's assessment of his contributions to the band are (mostly) correct. He has been the flag bearer all these years for better and for worse. I will politely disagree that their best stuff happened before Pet Sounds, but the charts and record returns would argue otherwise. Maybe I have a love/hate thing for Love.
Agreed completely!
12/29/09 @ 18:11
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
This is kind of a different category of rock fraud, but let's hear it for Russell Crowe and Billy Bob Thornton.
12/29/09 @ 20:08
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
I know it would be sacreligious to call Elvis Presley a fraud, but he definitely took co-writing credit on songs he did not have a hand in writing. I think we can blame Col.(colonel? ... yeah right) Tom Parker for this.
12/29/09 @ 22:20
Comment from: shawnkilroy [Member]
This is kind of a different category of rock fraud, but let's hear it for Russell Crowe and Billy Bob Thornton.
add Bruno to the list(Bruce Willis)
the hollywood bluesmen
add Bruno to the list(Bruce Willis)
the hollywood bluesmen
12/29/09 @ 22:32
Comment from: 2000 Man [Member]
I guess the latter version of Rock Fraud should include The Blues Brothers, too. Not a bad skit, and a pretty funny movie, but the album certainly leaves a lot to be desired.
BigSteve, Andrew Oldham was a total fraud in the studio, famously finishing the first recording session and telling the engineer to mix it because he had no idea that after the song was recorded there was still a lot of work to do. But as a manager, he was pretty impressive, if you ask me. "Would you let your daughter go with a Rolling Stone?" is still the basis for their image, and they're older than my mom!
BigSteve, Andrew Oldham was a total fraud in the studio, famously finishing the first recording session and telling the engineer to mix it because he had no idea that after the song was recorded there was still a lot of work to do. But as a manager, he was pretty impressive, if you ask me. "Would you let your daughter go with a Rolling Stone?" is still the basis for their image, and they're older than my mom!
12/30/09 @ 09:31
Comment from: cherguevarra [Member]
Oldham in the studio with Vashti Bunyan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741gXsdk0iE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741gXsdk0iE
12/30/09 @ 12:34
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
Speaking of the Beach Boys, let's not forget that old fraud Murry Wilson, who, besides being the band's (mis)manager, got himself producer credits and even a couple of co-writer credits.
12/31/09 @ 14:08
Comment from: geo [Member]
Hey, don't be dissin' Anrew Loog! Didn't you guys notice Glyn Johns learning those patented mixing hand gestures in the linked video. Groovey!
12/31/09 @ 14:15
Berlyant, therein lies one of my biggest problems with Landy: He "saved" Brian and then used him. Like Mike Love, I guess it's a love/hate thing. I'm glad that we still have Brian and that he's still making music for us, but at what cost? I can't seem to reconcile the two. Brian looked great in the 80s, thanks to Landy. However...
TB
TB
01/04/10 @ 15:18
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