Rock Squeezes
By Mr. Moderator on May 15, 2008
Wouldn't it be nice?
Were you ever young and wishing you were in love, with someone, anyone? Did you ever gaze at the iconic image of Bob Dylan and his squeeze, Suze Rotolo, on the cover of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, and think something to the effect of, "Wouldn't it be nice?"
I'm not sure how long into adulthood the effect of a rock squeeze lasts - and the artist can't be too much older than his squeeze without the whole thing coming off as sleezy and cliched, but a good Rock Squeeze at the right time in an artist's career - and the right time in the artist's fans' lifetimes - softens the image of the rock star, brings him down to earth, makes him even more like you as a young, idealistic rock nerd, that is, if you had more charisma and a more happening social life.
Think of the role Anita Pallenberg played in softening the image of at least 2 Rolling Stones:
44 comments
Still my all-time favorite Dylan album.
05/15/08 @ 07:45
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Mad props to the Townsperson who added Jane Asher to the poll! Can you imagine how much better McCartney's Cool Cred would have been had he stuck with her then, maybe, moved onto her sister? All that domestic bliss with Linda did as much damage to his Cool Cred as did the Granny songs.
05/15/08 @ 09:27
Comment from: BigSteve [Member] 
I'm guessing that Courtney Love doesn't fit into this category. Or Nancy Spungen. Or Pamela Anderson. All I can think of are counter-examples.
And btw Suze Rotolo has recently come out of the shadows and published a memoir of her time with Dylan. Here's a Salon review: http://www.salon.com/books/review/2008/04/26/rotolo/index.html?source=rss&aim=/books/review
I think she was briefly in the No Direction Home documentary too.
And btw Suze Rotolo has recently come out of the shadows and published a memoir of her time with Dylan. Here's a Salon review: http://www.salon.com/books/review/2008/04/26/rotolo/index.html?source=rss&aim=/books/review
I think she was briefly in the No Direction Home documentary too.
05/15/08 @ 10:35
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
Why doesn't Nancy fit?
Is she known for anything besides being a "woman known in rock circles for nothing other than her role as a girlfriend of a rock star"?
Confession: I wanted to add Jane to the poll but someone already had (t-vox, i'm looking in your direction!).
Rather than vote for Jane, I added Nancy.
Is she known for anything besides being a "woman known in rock circles for nothing other than her role as a girlfriend of a rock star"?
Confession: I wanted to add Jane to the poll but someone already had (t-vox, i'm looking in your direction!).
Rather than vote for Jane, I added Nancy.
05/15/08 @ 10:42
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I think Nancy fits, at least as an Anti-Squeeze. Courtney Love, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, and other women with their own public careers do not count. The Rock Squeeze has to support the fantasy of the submissive, supportive, doe-eyed girlfriend of one's middle school fantasies.
It goes without saying that if any of us actually had such a Rock Squeeze when we needed one we wouldn't be hanging around here.
It goes without saying that if any of us actually had such a Rock Squeeze when we needed one we wouldn't be hanging around here.
05/15/08 @ 10:53
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
I didn't think Nancy fit because Rock Squeezes are supposed to be supportive not destructive. And I don't think "at least a seeming lack of possessiveness" fits either.
05/15/08 @ 11:20
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I could be wrong, BigSteve. I turned off that Sid and Nancy movie about 30 minutes into it. I personally dislike the concept of the anti-squeeze, but I was trying to be liberal in allowing her. I figured that Nancy was at least supportive of Sid's destruction.
05/15/08 @ 11:33
Comment from: alexmagic [Member]
I added Jane Asher - she could have elevated the Squeeze artform, taken it to a new level if they’d lasted longer. I bet Lennon was secretly happy when they broke up, because sticking around with Asher long enough might have transferred both the cool cred and the Smart One cred from Lennon to McCartney, possibly through a strategic media campaign of having Paul photographed outside plays in London wearing his glasses and the occasional scarf. Would have changed the game.
05/15/08 @ 11:53
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
You're so right, Alexmagic! Piercing analyses, as always.
05/15/08 @ 12:02
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Mad props to the Jeanine St. Hubbins write-in vote on the poll, but I'm not sure that she's Rock Squeeze material. She's in the domineering camp, wouldn't you say?
05/15/08 @ 13:19
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
Like Anita Pallenberg, Patti Boyd was a serial Rock Squeeze. And Keith's current wife Patti Hansen is a former willowy model.
05/15/08 @ 14:21
Comment from: cherguevara [Member]
Do Gwynneth Paltrow or Kate Hudson qualify? Lisa Bonet was a cool squeeze for Lenny Kravitz, back in the day. I have actresses on my mind, obviously...
05/15/08 @ 14:24
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Yeah, I'm not counting Hansen, and I think Boyd was way too out in the public with "Layla" and whatnot. I'm not sure she's got the necessary "comforting" credentials. She was hot, but that's another matter.
Although Pallenberg was a serial Rock Squeeze, I think she brought a lot of comfort and support to her men. Look at those two photos I posted of her. Look at how she adapted her Look to suit each Stone.
Although Pallenberg was a serial Rock Squeeze, I think she brought a lot of comfort and support to her men. Look at those two photos I posted of her. Look at how she adapted her Look to suit each Stone.
05/15/08 @ 14:25
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Winona, Gwynneth, Kate, Lisa Bonet, and Laura Dern have their own thing going. They've got a high public profile. The Rock Squeeze I have tried to define is known ONLY for her role as a Rock Squeeze. Would anyone outside the UK past a certain date know who Jane Asher was if not for her time on Paul's arm? To this day she's part of Beatles mythology. Without that stint as a Rock Squeeze, what was she, a pretty girl of good breeding? Celebrities and fellow musicians do not count here.
05/15/08 @ 14:29
Comment from: dbuskirk [Member]
Should we now have a scholarly discussion on Bebe Buell? Didn't CREEM teach us anything?
05/15/08 @ 15:25
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
What gives, db, sour grapes that Winona was rejected? You really expect us to be distracted from our mission here as we turn our magazines sideways?
05/15/08 @ 15:44
Comment from: mwall [Member]
I myself would be thoroughly pleased to have a scholarly discussion on Bebe Buell. I'd have her circa 1975 as Special Guest Panelist and then conveniently forget to invite anybody else.
05/15/08 @ 15:53
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
Paulina was certainly known for more than being Mrs. Ric. Are we supposed to nominate Christie Brinkley, too?
In punk rock terms -- granted, those are loopy and bizarro-world type terms -- Nancy was the most supportive rock squeeze we could possibly imagine.
No one has mentioned Ray Davies's gal, Rasa, whose backing vox grace some of the sweetest tunes in the Kinks canon.
In punk rock terms -- granted, those are loopy and bizarro-world type terms -- Nancy was the most supportive rock squeeze we could possibly imagine.
No one has mentioned Ray Davies's gal, Rasa, whose backing vox grace some of the sweetest tunes in the Kinks canon.
05/15/08 @ 19:07
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
She was his *wife*, Sat - and Ray's eventual disdain for her is well known. Ball and chain!
05/15/08 @ 19:09
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
Plus, being well-known for being beautiful -- and then being well-known for being ill-matched in beauty points when compared to your rock star boyfriend -- is acceptable here. I would think. That's not much of an *accomplishment*.
05/15/08 @ 19:10
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
Fair enough on Rasa, HVB.
But I still say *no way* on Paulina.
You downplay her achievement.
She made quite a name for herself in a racket so fiercely competetive that it makes the rock biz look like Sesame Street.
And there were definitely more places in the world where she would be recognized before him if the two were seen in public.
Us rock-centric American nerds forget that the rest of the world doesn't see things like us.
In short, Paulina was a world renowned super model.
She's gotta be dq'd on the basis of having her own well established high profile career. I'll defer to the mod, of course, but her identity is certainly not wrapped up in, or dependent upon his.
Neither was Jane Asher's for that matter, completely dependent upon Paul's.
But I still say *no way* on Paulina.
You downplay her achievement.
She made quite a name for herself in a racket so fiercely competetive that it makes the rock biz look like Sesame Street.
And there were definitely more places in the world where she would be recognized before him if the two were seen in public.
Us rock-centric American nerds forget that the rest of the world doesn't see things like us.
In short, Paulina was a world renowned super model.
She's gotta be dq'd on the basis of having her own well established high profile career. I'll defer to the mod, of course, but her identity is certainly not wrapped up in, or dependent upon his.
Neither was Jane Asher's for that matter, completely dependent upon Paul's.
05/15/08 @ 20:13
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
Also, HVB, if you don't think modeling is hard work, I will show you what the fashion majors (those who aspire to the catwalk in particular) at the art college where I teach have to go through just to come close to the opportunity.
05/15/08 @ 20:17
Comment from: mwall [Member]
I was wondering how many of the women being mentioned had made significant names as models and whether we were overlooking that--not that I have any definitive answers here.
05/15/08 @ 21:06
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
Jane Asher and Anita P were models too. One reason they were less famous than their boyfriends was that they were a few of the most famous guys in the world at the time. Sliding the scale on Ocasek's fame isn't fair.
There's a basic problem with the premise. For us to even be aware of the Rock Squeeze, she has to have a certain level of fame. If she does, she's disqualified for having too high a profile. There are presumably hundreds of RS's we know nothing about.
There's a basic problem with the premise. For us to even be aware of the Rock Squeeze, she has to have a certain level of fame. If she does, she's disqualified for having too high a profile. There are presumably hundreds of RS's we know nothing about.
05/15/08 @ 21:11
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Listen, Paulina was a Supermodel in the age of Supermodels, that is, when regular people knew the names of those people. At least in the US, Jane Asher and Anita Pallenberg were not well known in everyday circles the way, say, Twiggy would be a few years later. They were pretty women from Europe, that's all. There was no Supermodel scene that regular folks would have been following.
Here's what I'm trying to get at: we know of these Anita Pallenberg/Mountain Girl types - and we think we know something about them as we've seen them in countless photos with their men - but we know little. They did little in the public eye apart from their men. You didn't know what their voice sounded like. You didn't know what they might have been thinking. We have no knowledge of them collaborating with their men. They fulfill some vague fantasy. They're the rock 'n roll guy's equivalent of unicorns or Ken dolls. If they've achieved this fame almost SOLELY for being a rock star's girlfriend - and if they meet most of the other criteria I listed - I think they are clearly set apart from the celebrity arm candy that's out there.
Here's what I'm trying to get at: we know of these Anita Pallenberg/Mountain Girl types - and we think we know something about them as we've seen them in countless photos with their men - but we know little. They did little in the public eye apart from their men. You didn't know what their voice sounded like. You didn't know what they might have been thinking. We have no knowledge of them collaborating with their men. They fulfill some vague fantasy. They're the rock 'n roll guy's equivalent of unicorns or Ken dolls. If they've achieved this fame almost SOLELY for being a rock star's girlfriend - and if they meet most of the other criteria I listed - I think they are clearly set apart from the celebrity arm candy that's out there.
05/15/08 @ 22:01
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
Surely, as the mod suggests, these things need reviewing on a case by case basis.
And in Paulina's case, had a major career (and considerable public recognition, regardless of Ric's fame) before ever even being linked to him. Even I knew who she was before she started dating Ric.
I don't see how she could possibly fit the parameters of this very important category of rock culture and will not rest until my points are accepted.
this is the stuff that really matters.
And in Paulina's case, had a major career (and considerable public recognition, regardless of Ric's fame) before ever even being linked to him. Even I knew who she was before she started dating Ric.
I don't see how she could possibly fit the parameters of this very important category of rock culture and will not rest until my points are accepted.
this is the stuff that really matters.
05/15/08 @ 22:40
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
This is just me, but I had no idea who Paulina was then and still don't really. And I find it hard to consider being tall and having an eating disorder a "career." But that's just me.
05/15/08 @ 23:57
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
this debate is hilarious, btw.
I really don't give a crap one way or the other, Steve, in case you couldn't read the sarcasm in my last "I will not rest" missive.
But this thread is becoming interesting. Our answers, and support of them, reveal alot about what we know of the cultural sphere, which is ultimately a reflection of our interests. But it also reveals our gender biases and tastes.
For example, since I was a horny teenager in the mid 80s, I had known about her for awhile before they were linked in gossip circles. She was in Sports Illustrated's Swimsuit Issue in 1983, on the cover in 1984 and 85....the cover of Playboy followed in '87. She didn't marry Ric Ocasek in 1989.
So *of course* my impression is different than yours.
Of course I don't think Paulina even comes close to having done "little in the public eye apart from her man". Nor would I think she achieved fame for "solely being a rock star's girlfriend."
Depending on who we are and where we grew up, we could be having the same argument about whether or not Jane Asher qualifies. She was a moderately famous actress *in England*. She had a number of English film credits to her name that pre-date the Beatles success and reach back into the mid 1950s. So I'm sure many Brits knew who she was before she was linked to Paul. Our assessment of her as "rock squeeze" within the parameters described by the mod, and quoted above, could be seen as anachronistic in the their eyes.
And at the other end of the spectrum, there are those people (none of them on RTH) who "had no idea who Yoko was" before she was hooked up with John.
Everybody brings a different form of information to the table....Pretty interesting stuff....
I really don't give a crap one way or the other, Steve, in case you couldn't read the sarcasm in my last "I will not rest" missive.
But this thread is becoming interesting. Our answers, and support of them, reveal alot about what we know of the cultural sphere, which is ultimately a reflection of our interests. But it also reveals our gender biases and tastes.
For example, since I was a horny teenager in the mid 80s, I had known about her for awhile before they were linked in gossip circles. She was in Sports Illustrated's Swimsuit Issue in 1983, on the cover in 1984 and 85....the cover of Playboy followed in '87. She didn't marry Ric Ocasek in 1989.
So *of course* my impression is different than yours.
Of course I don't think Paulina even comes close to having done "little in the public eye apart from her man". Nor would I think she achieved fame for "solely being a rock star's girlfriend."
Depending on who we are and where we grew up, we could be having the same argument about whether or not Jane Asher qualifies. She was a moderately famous actress *in England*. She had a number of English film credits to her name that pre-date the Beatles success and reach back into the mid 1950s. So I'm sure many Brits knew who she was before she was linked to Paul. Our assessment of her as "rock squeeze" within the parameters described by the mod, and quoted above, could be seen as anachronistic in the their eyes.
And at the other end of the spectrum, there are those people (none of them on RTH) who "had no idea who Yoko was" before she was hooked up with John.
Everybody brings a different form of information to the table....Pretty interesting stuff....
05/16/08 @ 08:10
Comment from: alexmagic [Member]
Let’s stop dodging the issue here. Only one person mentioned in this thread ever shot Tom Selleck in the ass with an arrow. If the merits of having the lead role in a delightful comedic romp like Her Alibi don’t disqualify Paulina Porizkova, we are no longer speaking the same language and I will remove myself from this debate and ask that my previous comment in this post be deleted.
05/16/08 @ 08:53
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
And what about her wonderful children's book, "The Adventures of Ralphie Roach"?
It's available for .39 on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Ralphie-Roach-Paulina-Porizkova/dp/0385424027
It's available for .39 on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Ralphie-Roach-Paulina-Porizkova/dp/0385424027
05/16/08 @ 08:58
Comment from: cherguevara [Member]
How about Tom Waits' wife, Kathleen Brennan? She has become his partner, and who can imagine what it's like to be married to him? It boggles the mind.
05/16/08 @ 10:53
Comment from: saturnismine [Member]
I always figured Tom was quite normal in private. His persona seems such a put on to me...such an exaggeration.
But if he really is like that all the time, then yeah: it does boggle the mind!
But if he really is like that all the time, then yeah: it does boggle the mind!
05/16/08 @ 11:17
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
Tom and Kathleen have three kids. Having him as a dad seems equally mind-boggling, but it might actually be pretty cool. I think his oldest son played on one of his recent records.
05/16/08 @ 11:33
Comment from: mwall [Member]
Anybody know how many ounces each of their children weighed at birth? Inquiring minds need this information immediately...
05/16/08 @ 11:43
Comment from: cdm [Member]
Tom Waits' son played drums on tour with him when I saw him two summers ago. I think he still lives up in Petaluma CA, a few hours north of San Francisco, and I've always heard that he's really sort of a down to earth family man kind of guy notwithstanding his hijinks as a bachelor in the 70's or his current wacky persona.
He's touring again this spring/summer by the way.
He's touring again this spring/summer by the way.
05/16/08 @ 14:46
Comment from: dbuskirk [Member]
I bumped into Tom Waits a few times when I lived in San Francisco, once on X-mas eve in front of City Lights books with his son (who was about fourteen and in skater wear). The shock was always how healthy he looked: tall and fit, cleared-eyed and charismatic. It seemed obvious the unwieldy drunk thing was an act. I paid him my highest compliment, which is to look the other way and give the guy some peace.
05/16/08 @ 20:55
Saturn wrote:
Confession: I wanted to add Jane to the poll but someone already had (t-vox, i'm looking in your direction!).
Not me. I'm in the Patty Boyd/Marianne Faithful camp. Jane always seemed a bit prim and high-society for me.
Jane Asher would never have dropped acid right before appearing in a stage production. Faithful didn't have a issue with that, apparently.
Confession: I wanted to add Jane to the poll but someone already had (t-vox, i'm looking in your direction!).
Not me. I'm in the Patty Boyd/Marianne Faithful camp. Jane always seemed a bit prim and high-society for me.
Jane Asher would never have dropped acid right before appearing in a stage production. Faithful didn't have a issue with that, apparently.
05/19/08 @ 15:18
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Real rock stars don't let their ladies drop acid on their behalf! I loves, ya, Tvox, but let's get real here. Jane is TOTALLY your kind of rock squeeze. OK, not the high society part. Whoever assumed that of you, even if wrong in assuming that you posted that write in, was correct in spirit. And there's no shame in any of us squeezing prim and high-society Jane!
05/19/08 @ 15:48
And there's no shame in any of us squeezing prim and high-society Jane!
To each his own. Me and Patty are headed out for a night on the town. Let me know how it works out for you and Jane.
To each his own. Me and Patty are headed out for a night on the town. Let me know how it works out for you and Jane.
05/19/08 @ 16:14
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
Speaking of Tom Waits, some of you might find this loooooong 'self-interview' Waits recently put up on his label's website;
http://www.antilabelblog.com/?p=288#more-288
I'm not sure it sheds much light on his relative normalcy, but it's quite amusing. I'm trying not to be mad at Tom because he's just decided to play a concert in Mobile only after I moved far away.
http://www.antilabelblog.com/?p=288#more-288
I'm not sure it sheds much light on his relative normalcy, but it's quite amusing. I'm trying not to be mad at Tom because he's just decided to play a concert in Mobile only after I moved far away.
05/24/08 @ 11:05
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