Do-Overs: The Beatles and Beyond
By Mr. Moderator on Nov 19, 2009
Have you ever wished a favorite artist could do-over a particular album, song, or period in its career? I've always wished that The Beatles could have finished their final 3 albums in a more satisfying, more unifying way. I believe I speak for most Beatles fans in saying that there's a lot to be gained by our shared experiences with the band. In a world where there is little consensus, Beatles fans are pretty much in step with each other over the first two periods of the band's career:
- After acknowledging the greatness of the band's entire output, Beatles fans states their preference for "Early Beatles" (ie, everything up to and usually including Rubber Soul, which few Beatles fans criticize in any way) or "pot-smoking Beatles" (ie, the period beginning with Rubber Soul and Revolver, when they became known for crafting albums).
- Next Beatles fans take a moment to state that Sgt. Pepper's is "overrated," only pausing to differentiate whether it's "grossly overrated" (a sign that something slightly less than a true Beatles devotee is among our ranks) or "still a remarkable achievement, despite the fact that we're all a little sick of having had it jammed down our throats for 40 years!"
- A brief discussion among Beatles fans is likely to ensue over the band's worst and most underrated song ever.
- We've all got a favorite Beatle, but no true Beatles fan dislikes any one member, not even Paul.
- We may have a laugh over the issue of the Fifth Beatle.
For all there is to discuss concerning our love for The Beatles, there aren't too many issues over which we have great differences. These days, only those who've been living under a rock the last 30 years may have an issue with Yoko "breaking up" the band. One area over which Beatles fans can divide, sometimes painfully so, is over their last three studio releases: The White Album, Let It Be, and Abbey Road. I don't have to tell you all the points of contention, do I?
In my do-over, The White Album's best songs would have been the band's straightforward, stripped down release - not to mention a single album.
This morning, for the first time, I listened to Volume 3 of the old Anthology series of releases. I bought the first two volumes when they came out and was mostly disappointed with what I found after having peeked behind the Wizard's curtain. I'm one of those Beatles fans who's always wished that The White Album could have been a single album - maybe even an EP - and I've also got problems with large chunks of Abbey Road and its influence on one of my close personal friends. On the other hand, I actually love Let It Be.
Listening to the outtakes, demos, and raw tracks of these albums on Anthology, Volume 3, I had a revelation. I wish I could call for a do-over of the band's final leg. Dig.
Follow up:
Let's get it right, this time, OK?
In my do-over, The White Album's best songs would have been the band's straightforward, stripped down release - not to mention a single album. Minus the painstaking overdubs, I realized this morning, gimmicky songs I rarely want to hear again, like "Glass Onion," "Honey Pie," and even stinking "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da," can swing and be fun. Most of the relatively decent White Album songs are hampered, for me, by every detailed, overdubbed arrangement idea. Usually I love tightly arranged songs with bunches of "Check it out!" moments, but I don't need finely crafted details to bring me closer to "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da." The earlier take on Anthology is ignorable, disposable - in a good way! Give me more of that stuff and the few really good songs, and dump all the pure nonsense.
The Beatles, "Honey Pie" (demo)
The Beatles, "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" (initial take)
To go out on a high note that us Beatles fans could all rally around I would have selected the best songs from Let It Be and Abbey Road and given them the loving treatment that is wasted on the latter album's crap, like "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," "Octopus's Garden," and the medley, as a concept. In a stunning tribute to The Power and Glory of Rock 'n Roll, The Beatles' swan song would have included, in no particular order:
- "Two of Us"
- "Dig a Pony"
- "Across the Universe"
- "Let it Be"
- "I've Got a Feeling"
- "Get Back"
- "Come Together"
- "Something"
- "I Want You (She's So Heavy)"
- "Here Comes the Sun"
- "Golden Slumbers"/"Carry That Weight" (as a lone, 2-song medley)
My apologies to "Because" and "Sun King," one and a half songs from Abbey Road I kind of like and greatly appreciate, but most of those song's strengths would have been covered already on the stripped-down White Album's takes on "Dear Prudence" and "Sexy Sadie."
There it is: my Beatles' late-career do-over. This leaves at least two qustions:
- What do you think, true Beatles fans? Is this something we could rally around, the way we rally around the band's first two eras?
- For all Townspeople, true Beatles fans or not, do you have your own do-over to suggest, regarding an artist or band of your choice?
43 comments
Comment from: junkintheyard [Member] 
Label me what you will Mr. Mod, but this Beatles fan thinks Let it Be wasn't worth a damn until it was... Naked. Ok let the hate rain and berating begin! haha.
This forum is odd as it is the one of the few places that "True" Beatles fans trash the boys (out of love I can only assume).
Mr. Mod, I humbly ask before I keep going and making a fool of myself, what is a "True Beatles Fan"? Is it the same as an "Honest" Fan or a "Fanboy" or the like? I tried looking through your suggested link but I have already heard or read 158 comments about hating the Beatles elsewhere. Please let me know!
This forum is odd as it is the one of the few places that "True" Beatles fans trash the boys (out of love I can only assume).
Mr. Mod, I humbly ask before I keep going and making a fool of myself, what is a "True Beatles Fan"? Is it the same as an "Honest" Fan or a "Fanboy" or the like? I tried looking through your suggested link but I have already heard or read 158 comments about hating the Beatles elsewhere. Please let me know!
11/19/09 @ 12:04
Comment from: shonuffnyesido [Member]
True Beatles fans acknowledge that Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, no matter how sick any of us is of even thinking about it, is better than the Stones' Their Satanic Majesties Request, no matter how much that album's been trashed and how cool it might seem to state a preference for it.
11/19/09 @ 12:09
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Damn, that's more definitive a statement than I could have come up with Townsperson shonuffnyesido! Sounds reasonable to me, though.
11/19/09 @ 12:12
Comment from: mwall [Member]
I don't consider myself a True Beatles Fan, but I actually I think Any Perceptive Listener will prefer Sgt. Pepper's to the only occasionally intriguing mess of Satanic Majesties.
11/19/09 @ 12:40
I find Sgt. Pepper to be correctly rated, not overrated. Leave it alone for 4-5 years and then get the remaster.
The White Album - I bet we'd all pick the same songs to remove more or less (Good night, Rev 9, Wild Honey Pie)and it would be a better record for it
Let it be - Add in the singles from the time (Lady Madonna, Don't Let Me Down, John & Yoko) and kill the Maggie May, Dig It etc. and there is a (more) decent Beatles Release here
I'm fine with Abbey Road just like it is
The White Album - I bet we'd all pick the same songs to remove more or less (Good night, Rev 9, Wild Honey Pie)and it would be a better record for it
Let it be - Add in the singles from the time (Lady Madonna, Don't Let Me Down, John & Yoko) and kill the Maggie May, Dig It etc. and there is a (more) decent Beatles Release here
I'm fine with Abbey Road just like it is
11/19/09 @ 12:42
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
junkintheyard, I can assure you that you're in no risk of making a fool out of yourself. Honestly, the "true Beatles fan" thing is meant to put a few naysayers at ease and to assure them that this was not meant to be a Beatlescentric post, per se. Those of us who want to go that way can take it to a corner of the room. The Beatles example of a do-over that I provided was my own thing. I welcome do-overs for all sorts of artists.
11/19/09 @ 12:44
I think we have had this discussion before on double-albums
Quadraphenia
Use Your Illusion 1&2
Human Touch / Lucky Town
All could use the 55 minute egg timer
Ok, almost EVERY record could use the 55 minute Egg timer (and many the 35 minute one)
Quadraphenia
Use Your Illusion 1&2
Human Touch / Lucky Town
All could use the 55 minute egg timer
Ok, almost EVERY record could use the 55 minute Egg timer (and many the 35 minute one)
11/19/09 @ 12:44
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
True, regarding the overlong album discussion, jungleland2, but I'm hoping the "do-over" perspective can apply to entire periods, Looks, etc. For instance, in terms of The Rolling Stones and all British "working man," blues-based bands beside The Pretty Things and The Yardbirds, I would recommend a do-over regarding their decision to take psychedelics - and maybe even to smoke pot. The Stones, in my opinion, were a lousy psych band. The Animals were laughably great on acid, but really... The Small Faces went downhill quickly on acid. Acid should have been reserved for bands that already used more than 4 chords in their songs.
11/19/09 @ 12:50
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
I'm not a True Beatles Fan, but I willing to Acknowledge Sgt Pepper's as long as I don't have to Listen To It. I'd rather spend time with Satanic Majesties any day.
I wish the Beatles would have chosen to Do Over the entire last few years of their career. They should have split up amicably in say 1967, in such a way that they continued to play on each other's solo albums. That way I could totally ignore Paul's albums, but John and George could have had access to Paul's bass playing while they were still writing their best material.
The 60s didn't begin until 1963, to paraphrase Philip Larkin, and everybody would have been better off if the 60s had ended early too, so we could just get on with it.
I wish the Beatles would have chosen to Do Over the entire last few years of their career. They should have split up amicably in say 1967, in such a way that they continued to play on each other's solo albums. That way I could totally ignore Paul's albums, but John and George could have had access to Paul's bass playing while they were still writing their best material.
The 60s didn't begin until 1963, to paraphrase Philip Larkin, and everybody would have been better off if the 60s had ended early too, so we could just get on with it.
11/19/09 @ 12:58
Comment from: cherguevara [Member]
I would want a do-over on the last few Talking Heads albums, particularly "Little Creatures." I know that was a popular album in its day, but compared to what came before it, well, is it even worth comparing? I think a question that relates to this is: When a band is clearly on the road to demise, which ones made great albums (I'll stand by Abbey Road on this one, or Odessey and Oracle) and which ones petered out or simply fulfilled a contractual obligation?
11/19/09 @ 12:59
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Good question, cher. I'll think about it, but regarding Talking Heads, I think their swan song, Naked is really good - by far the best album post-the fourth one (blanking on title)...
11/19/09 @ 13:03
Comment from: junkintheyard [Member]
shonuffnyesido: That's a no-brainer. Sgt Pepper is far from my favorite album but I would put it against most of the Stone's Catalog.
As far as Do overs: I believe Let it be naked took care of that for the most part. In the following paragraph, I contradict myself.
I am hesitant to drop songs because otherwise casual Beatles fans who don't look for rarities won't come across them. I love the absurdity of Wild Honey Pie- perhaps because a lot of my family are rednecks and it sounds like a hoot!
In other do overs (and I show my age here): 311. They should have stopped after Soundsystem, if that. The subsequent 4 or five albums can distilled into one solid farewell.
As far as Do overs: I believe Let it be naked took care of that for the most part. In the following paragraph, I contradict myself.
I am hesitant to drop songs because otherwise casual Beatles fans who don't look for rarities won't come across them. I love the absurdity of Wild Honey Pie- perhaps because a lot of my family are rednecks and it sounds like a hoot!
In other do overs (and I show my age here): 311. They should have stopped after Soundsystem, if that. The subsequent 4 or five albums can distilled into one solid farewell.
11/19/09 @ 13:26
Comment from: cherguevara [Member]
Ok, if "Naked" is a good album, then all the better - because instead of being a band just petering out, we actually have an era - the "post-success era" which was possibly bookended with a final push to end on a high note. Because we could probably make an extensive list of bands that should've broken up instead of making however many more albums (XTC, U2, Stones, um, Macy Grey?)
11/19/09 @ 13:38
Comment from: diskojoe [Member]
I've always thought that Quadraphenia should have sounded more like the pre-Tommy Who, given its subject matter.
I don't know if the "concept album" era Kinks of the '70s would warrant a make-over, since those albums do have a certain loopy charm to them. Maybe they should have called it a day after 1985 instead of making albums like Phobia.
I'll take Sgt. Pepper's over Santanic Majesties any old day.
"The Small Faces went downhill quickly on acid". You didn't care for Odgen's Nut Gone Flake?
I don't know if the "concept album" era Kinks of the '70s would warrant a make-over, since those albums do have a certain loopy charm to them. Maybe they should have called it a day after 1985 instead of making albums like Phobia.
I'll take Sgt. Pepper's over Santanic Majesties any old day.
"The Small Faces went downhill quickly on acid". You didn't care for Odgen's Nut Gone Flake?
11/19/09 @ 13:50
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Cher, there has yet to be a "post-success era" of The Beatles almost 40 years since their official break up. I think they really petered out, in terms of material, on The White Album and then spent too much time trying to make THAT album sound better. What I proposed in my do-over is that they had let THAT album be and then included the best Let It Be songs for all the care they gave to the turds on Abbey Road. Abbey Road was actually recorded AFTER Let It Be, right?
11/19/09 @ 14:14
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
diskojoe, I think that Small Faces album is a steaming turd, yes. The gnome gnarrating doesn't help my enjoyment of it either. If not for the cool album cover no one would have paid it any mind. I know it's hard to believe that if you really do like the music:)
11/19/09 @ 14:16
The Small Faces had some musical success with psychedelic pop, especially on their first record for Immediate (prior to Ogden's). "Green Circles" comes to mind. I might be in the minority about the Stones and psychedelia, but I certainly love how it seems into the rockers of the time, especially the sitar drone of Street Fighting Man and Paint it Black and the overdriven fuzz of Citadel and creepiness of 2000 Light Years from Home.
11/19/09 @ 14:29
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Yes, Tvox, the druggy songs on There Are But Four Small Faces are almost all very good: "Here Comes the Nice," "Green Circles," "Itchykoo Park"... I think they lost their tunefulness and power - the combination that they previously had - on Ogden's Nut Gone Flake. It goes without saying that I have no idea what they were putting in their bodies at the making of either album.
You have cited the Stones' best pot and psychedelic-related moments. I agree that those moments are great. Overall, however, they didn't seem as suited for that music the way some of their contemporaries were.
You have cited the Stones' best pot and psychedelic-related moments. I agree that those moments are great. Overall, however, they didn't seem as suited for that music the way some of their contemporaries were.
11/19/09 @ 14:35
Comment from: junkintheyard [Member]
Mr. Mod, yes Let it Be was recorded first and released later technically making it their last release.
11/19/09 @ 14:40
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
You know who I'm torn over, in the should-they-just-hang-it-up department?
Motorhead.
I mean, did they *really* need to make umpteen albums of 180 mph meth-rock after sand-blasting our brains the first time with "Ace Of Spades"? Wouldn't it have been better to just fire off that one insanely amazing album, then just stop, resting on their legendary accomplishment until the end of Rock Time?
But wait! The genius of Motorhead, and the wonderfulness of Lemmy in particular, is that they keep cranking out the same turbo-sludge year after year, then touring incessantly behind it. And Lemmy has a giant fucking wart on his face! The world needs to see that wart until it finally gets blown off his craggy, greasy conk by the 500,000 decibel explosion he subjects himself -- and us -- to at each an every gig. Long live Motorhead! Don't stop -- ever!
Motorhead.
I mean, did they *really* need to make umpteen albums of 180 mph meth-rock after sand-blasting our brains the first time with "Ace Of Spades"? Wouldn't it have been better to just fire off that one insanely amazing album, then just stop, resting on their legendary accomplishment until the end of Rock Time?
But wait! The genius of Motorhead, and the wonderfulness of Lemmy in particular, is that they keep cranking out the same turbo-sludge year after year, then touring incessantly behind it. And Lemmy has a giant fucking wart on his face! The world needs to see that wart until it finally gets blown off his craggy, greasy conk by the 500,000 decibel explosion he subjects himself -- and us -- to at each an every gig. Long live Motorhead! Don't stop -- ever!
11/19/09 @ 14:44
Agreed on both counts, Mr. Mod. The Small Faces great "Tin Soldier" has pretty much no psych influence at all; rather, it's a nice '68 hybrid of bluesy mod-isms and proto-Zep sound, a brief period of sonic power and glory I'd love RTH to analyze at some point (another example would be Deep Purple's "Hush").
I really must take a crack at my "psychedelia that succeeds" RTH piece about psych that rises above and beyond it's go-to cliches.
I really must take a crack at my "psychedelia that succeeds" RTH piece about psych that rises above and beyond it's go-to cliches.
11/19/09 @ 14:44
Comment from: alexmagic [Member]
RTH is still the only place I've run into any kind of real negative takes on Abbey Road, and I have received a ton of off-list support backing me up on this. You'd doom "You Never Give Me Your Money" to obscurity, Mod?
I'm really against the knee-jerk "make the White Album a single album" take, in that it really makes me think the people who usually say it don't actually listen to it as an album anyway. But I know that's not the case here, so I'm happy to get into it a bit.
Is there really anything to gain by getting rid of "Wild Honey Pie", which isn't even a minute long? I think having something as weird as that in there only adds to the album, and I honestly can't imagine any other way to transition into Bungalow Bill, which you'd have to be crazy to dump.
Similarly, having "Honey Pie" come right before "Savoy Truffle" only makes the latter that much more effective. I do think I like the Anthology 3 version of Honey Pie better, though, with Paul just filling in the imaginary old-timey band himself. Probably would have pissed Manson off, though.
Anyway, I think I've said it before, but the best part of the White Album for me is how much of a sprawling, from-all-four-corners-of-the-world, wonderfully messy thing it is. These are the guys who just took over the planet from a cultural perspective, that kind of shit will take a lot out of you. That they were able to capture that "Lennon stayed in bed, for there were no more countries to conquer" vibe so perfectly in the music is what makes me come back to the album as often as I do.
To switch to another hot button RTH issue, anybody want to consider how a Do Over would work for post-Dukes XTC? Keep in mind I only ask so those of us who like Nonsuch can complain about the people who will complain about Nonsuch.
I'm really against the knee-jerk "make the White Album a single album" take, in that it really makes me think the people who usually say it don't actually listen to it as an album anyway. But I know that's not the case here, so I'm happy to get into it a bit.
Is there really anything to gain by getting rid of "Wild Honey Pie", which isn't even a minute long? I think having something as weird as that in there only adds to the album, and I honestly can't imagine any other way to transition into Bungalow Bill, which you'd have to be crazy to dump.
Similarly, having "Honey Pie" come right before "Savoy Truffle" only makes the latter that much more effective. I do think I like the Anthology 3 version of Honey Pie better, though, with Paul just filling in the imaginary old-timey band himself. Probably would have pissed Manson off, though.
Anyway, I think I've said it before, but the best part of the White Album for me is how much of a sprawling, from-all-four-corners-of-the-world, wonderfully messy thing it is. These are the guys who just took over the planet from a cultural perspective, that kind of shit will take a lot out of you. That they were able to capture that "Lennon stayed in bed, for there were no more countries to conquer" vibe so perfectly in the music is what makes me come back to the album as often as I do.
To switch to another hot button RTH issue, anybody want to consider how a Do Over would work for post-Dukes XTC? Keep in mind I only ask so those of us who like Nonsuch can complain about the people who will complain about Nonsuch.
11/19/09 @ 14:49
Comment from: mockcarr [Member]
Actually, what probably would have happened was the cartoon movie would not necessarily have been called Yellow Submarine and/or some songs could be lifted from the White album to fit. Bungalow Bill, Rocky Racoon, Honey Pie, some Piggies, and Martha the sheepdog would star in nine revolutionary tales. Right away you could have Paul's Martha vs. John's Bulldog.
11/19/09 @ 14:52
Comment from: cdm [Member]
Hmmm… I suspect that I am one of those Beatle naysayers to whom the Mod is referring.
The odd thing is, for a guy who is a more casual Beatles fan than most around these parts (except maybe 2kman), I don’t really think their last three albums need to be consolidated. There are a few tracks that could be stripped out (Maxwell’s Silver Hammer), and there are a few songs that I never need to hear again due to over saturation (Back In The USSR), but in general, there is great enough material on those four discs that the best you could do is strip them down to three.
So I would distill the White album down to a single album and take the what ever won’t fit on that album and use those tracks to replace stuff like Maxwell and Long and Winding Road.
If there’s room for a non Beatles related discussion, I would like to rerecord Back in the USA by the MC5, just to get a fuller sound. I wouldn’t change the arrangements or performances, just make it sound a but fuller. And I would lose the two pointless cover songs.
Also, I would have the Replacements rerecord Tim, Please to Meet Me and Don’t Tell a Soul. Again, I would keep the arrangements and performances but I would get rid of that horrible 80’s production sound and I would cut Shooting Dirty Pool and One Good Dose of Thunder.
The odd thing is, for a guy who is a more casual Beatles fan than most around these parts (except maybe 2kman), I don’t really think their last three albums need to be consolidated. There are a few tracks that could be stripped out (Maxwell’s Silver Hammer), and there are a few songs that I never need to hear again due to over saturation (Back In The USSR), but in general, there is great enough material on those four discs that the best you could do is strip them down to three.
So I would distill the White album down to a single album and take the what ever won’t fit on that album and use those tracks to replace stuff like Maxwell and Long and Winding Road.
If there’s room for a non Beatles related discussion, I would like to rerecord Back in the USA by the MC5, just to get a fuller sound. I wouldn’t change the arrangements or performances, just make it sound a but fuller. And I would lose the two pointless cover songs.
Also, I would have the Replacements rerecord Tim, Please to Meet Me and Don’t Tell a Soul. Again, I would keep the arrangements and performances but I would get rid of that horrible 80’s production sound and I would cut Shooting Dirty Pool and One Good Dose of Thunder.
11/19/09 @ 14:53
Comment from: mockcarr [Member]
Hrrundi, I forgot how funny the word conk is. Thank you.
11/19/09 @ 14:56
Comment from: cdm [Member]
And I would have cast Andy Gibb instead of Peter Frampton in the SPLHCB movie. Seems like it would have been the right things to do. Did they really need to exclude him from everything? Geez...
11/19/09 @ 14:59
Comment from: mockcarr [Member]
Well, he did get to bang Victoria Principal when she was the main dish. Maybe that was the final straw that drove him to suicide though.
11/19/09 @ 15:03
Comment from: cdm [Member]
True, but they didn't set him up with that, did they? Selfish bastards
11/19/09 @ 15:31
Comment from: cherguevara [Member]
Another RTH meme that applies here: Paul Weller's "Style Council" era.
11/19/09 @ 16:13
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
cdm wrote:
By all means there's room for non-Beatles related discussion, cdm! My personal story was meant to set the tone - and to section off the side of the room where Beatles freaks can hash out the few things that keep us from holding hands and skipping through fields of tulips.
It's funny what you say about MC5's Back in the USA. I love what the thin production of that album does for them. If I had a do-over to assign to them it might be to give the other albums that same treatment.
Great point about Andy Gibb, btw.
And yes, cher, Style Council is a period in Weller's career for which Superman would have circled the earth's orbit in reverse to erase, if given the chance.
If there’s room for a non Beatles related discussion, I would like to rerecord Back in the USA by the MC5, just to get a fuller sound.
By all means there's room for non-Beatles related discussion, cdm! My personal story was meant to set the tone - and to section off the side of the room where Beatles freaks can hash out the few things that keep us from holding hands and skipping through fields of tulips.
It's funny what you say about MC5's Back in the USA. I love what the thin production of that album does for them. If I had a do-over to assign to them it might be to give the other albums that same treatment.
Great point about Andy Gibb, btw.
And yes, cher, Style Council is a period in Weller's career for which Superman would have circled the earth's orbit in reverse to erase, if given the chance.
11/19/09 @ 16:32
Comment from: cdm [Member]
I was thinking that MC5 comment would have the added benefit of bringing Sat out of seclusion.
What's the appeal for you of the anemic guitar sounds on that album?
What's the appeal for you of the anemic guitar sounds on that album?
11/19/09 @ 16:50
where Beatles freaks can hash out the few things that keep us from holding hands and skipping through fields of tulips.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you.
11/19/09 @ 17:02
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
You guys really are a bunch of rockist pussies when it comes to Weller's Style Council phase. Honest to goodness... will somebody actually come out and explain why Weller's impressive streak of neo-soul pop songs in the early 80s should be given less slack than, say, Hall and Oates'?
I'll say it again: the Style Council were a *singles band* -- and a pretty darn great one at that. Nobody ever expected anything great from Four Tops albums, or Hall and Oates LPs. Why is Weller held to a different standard?
I want answers!
I'll say it again: the Style Council were a *singles band* -- and a pretty darn great one at that. Nobody ever expected anything great from Four Tops albums, or Hall and Oates LPs. Why is Weller held to a different standard?
I want answers!
11/19/09 @ 17:11
Comment from: 2000 Man [Member]
Oh, man. The Stones weren't a psych band and they recorded more killer psych songs than most psych bands ever came up with (seeing how most psych bands managed a whopping one tolerable song and a B side that was scrotum shrinkingly embarassing). Sure, Satanic majesties has its bad moments, but nothing the Stones did was ever as horrible When I'm 64. In fact, If A Day in the Life weren't on side two, why would anyone ever flip that record over? Granted, Sing This All Together (See What Happens) is a steaming turd, but swap that and put Dandelion and She's A Rainbow on Satanic, and you would have possibly the finest psych album ever made.
Then again for me, I'd probably rather listen to Steel Wheels than most of the Beatles albums (besides Revolver).
As much as I'd like to have The Replacements albums stripped of some 80's drum noise, I don't think I'd touch those albums cdm mentioned. They sound pretty good, and I'm not sure Chris Mars wasn't more than a little helped by that dumb, massive sound. I'd put out All Shook Down as a solo Westerberg album, which is what it really was anyway. Man, that guy's career has been mishandled badly, but mostly through Paul's own actions anyway.
I'd like a do over for The Stones' Goat's Head Soup. Lets strip off some of the slow, boring crap and put some rockers like Save Me (or Criss Cross, whatever it's really called), and clean some of the mud out of the mix, and get Jagger to work on Winter more. He only did a few vocal takes and said, "good enough." Jimmy Miller wanted more, but Jimmy was pretty far gone by then.
I'd also like a do over on all the Yardbirds recordings with Jeff Beck. Man, they just all sound terrible. The performances and songs are amazing, but the sound quality is atrocious. And really, I can get past a lot!
Then again for me, I'd probably rather listen to Steel Wheels than most of the Beatles albums (besides Revolver).
As much as I'd like to have The Replacements albums stripped of some 80's drum noise, I don't think I'd touch those albums cdm mentioned. They sound pretty good, and I'm not sure Chris Mars wasn't more than a little helped by that dumb, massive sound. I'd put out All Shook Down as a solo Westerberg album, which is what it really was anyway. Man, that guy's career has been mishandled badly, but mostly through Paul's own actions anyway.
I'd like a do over for The Stones' Goat's Head Soup. Lets strip off some of the slow, boring crap and put some rockers like Save Me (or Criss Cross, whatever it's really called), and clean some of the mud out of the mix, and get Jagger to work on Winter more. He only did a few vocal takes and said, "good enough." Jimmy Miller wanted more, but Jimmy was pretty far gone by then.
I'd also like a do over on all the Yardbirds recordings with Jeff Beck. Man, they just all sound terrible. The performances and songs are amazing, but the sound quality is atrocious. And really, I can get past a lot!
11/19/09 @ 17:26
Comment from: underthefloat [Member]
Cool thread..
Beatles: Yes, Sgt Pepper is overrated. Some of Macca's more cloying tracks, and a stiff from Lennon "Benefit of Mr. Kite". For later period stuff (not my fav period), I think Macca's songs on Abbey Road are better the on Sgt Pepper. Is that a dangerous comment to make? :)
Regarding The Talking Heads I agree with the thought that they hung on to long despite their popularity. Had they called it a day after "Remain in Light" their legacy would be much better, IMO. Even NAKED is very flawed in my opinion. Just doesn't demand repeated listens. Best is "More Songs.."
I love the Replacements too. I know not everyone agrees but I'd do some trimming of "Don't Tell a Soul". The problem is I'm not sure that you cuold pull off the better tracks and add the to say "Please to meet me". Not sure it would "feel" right.
And, yes, true the final Mats album is a solo disc.
Beatles: Yes, Sgt Pepper is overrated. Some of Macca's more cloying tracks, and a stiff from Lennon "Benefit of Mr. Kite". For later period stuff (not my fav period), I think Macca's songs on Abbey Road are better the on Sgt Pepper. Is that a dangerous comment to make? :)
Regarding The Talking Heads I agree with the thought that they hung on to long despite their popularity. Had they called it a day after "Remain in Light" their legacy would be much better, IMO. Even NAKED is very flawed in my opinion. Just doesn't demand repeated listens. Best is "More Songs.."
I love the Replacements too. I know not everyone agrees but I'd do some trimming of "Don't Tell a Soul". The problem is I'm not sure that you cuold pull off the better tracks and add the to say "Please to meet me". Not sure it would "feel" right.
And, yes, true the final Mats album is a solo disc.
11/19/09 @ 18:18
Comment from: general slocum [Member]
I have never been an Abbey Road fan, and can't part with any of the White Album if only for the role it plays in my psyche's nostalgia center. But I'd like a do-over on the statement that no real Beatles fan dislikes any of them. Of course it is Paul who seems more contemptible as years pass. The great hooksmanship of songs like "Jet" don't detract in the slightest from what a horse's patoot he seems during the Let It Be sessions, or 10 years later defending himself over it, or his cringeworthy interviews in the last decade or so. Ew, sez me.
11/19/09 @ 19:24
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
cdm asked, regarding my saying that I prefer the sound of MC5 on Back in the USA"
I think it tempers their bluster and brings their sound down to a size appropriate to their talent. Believe it or not, I say this in a complimentary way. For all their revolutionary bluster, I think they produced a batch of mostly lousy songs, and the pompous way in which their represented on Kick Out the Jams is little more than a joke for me. They should sound as good as Grand Funk Railroad for all they're telling me they're putting into the music, mannnn. At least on Back... they deliver more of those humble pleasures.
General, your (and my) disgust with Paul mostly developed long after the fact, no? In the context of The Beatles themselves, you can't tell me that he's so annoying that you'd think they'd have been better without them. Can you? If so, you're willing to discount a good part of what made the band what they were, no?
What's the appeal for you of the anemic guitar sounds on that album?
I think it tempers their bluster and brings their sound down to a size appropriate to their talent. Believe it or not, I say this in a complimentary way. For all their revolutionary bluster, I think they produced a batch of mostly lousy songs, and the pompous way in which their represented on Kick Out the Jams is little more than a joke for me. They should sound as good as Grand Funk Railroad for all they're telling me they're putting into the music, mannnn. At least on Back... they deliver more of those humble pleasures.
General, your (and my) disgust with Paul mostly developed long after the fact, no? In the context of The Beatles themselves, you can't tell me that he's so annoying that you'd think they'd have been better without them. Can you? If so, you're willing to discount a good part of what made the band what they were, no?
11/19/09 @ 20:18
Comment from: dr john [Member]
I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see Sgt. Pepper and Magical Mystery Tour combined. Strip out the goofy carnival stuff and dancehall schtick, and you'd have a killer record.
11/20/09 @ 11:24
Comment from: general slocum [Member]
Well, of course, Mod, but you simply said no one dislikes a Beatle, not "without benefit of hindsight", or anything. So, he was great in the mix, and when the equilibrium got thrown to where those guys wanted very different things, his springs started popping through the mattress. He provided a lot of what I like about them, but that isn't the same as "liking him." Classic case of asshole makes good art, what can you do?
11/22/09 @ 20:13
hrrundivbakshi
The new Motohead may be my favorite since the 1st three MOTORIZER is worth a listen.
Sometimes it takes bands a while to return to what made them great. Remember the many horrible Black Sabbath records from the 1980's and 90's before they got it right again (under the moniker Heaven & Hell)
ZZ Top has been on a bender of bad records but I have a feeling the next one (produced by Rick Ruben) will be a return to their glory days.
The new Motohead may be my favorite since the 1st three MOTORIZER is worth a listen.
Sometimes it takes bands a while to return to what made them great. Remember the many horrible Black Sabbath records from the 1980's and 90's before they got it right again (under the moniker Heaven & Hell)
ZZ Top has been on a bender of bad records but I have a feeling the next one (produced by Rick Ruben) will be a return to their glory days.
11/23/09 @ 15:10
Comment from: hrrundivbakshi [Member]
Yo, Jungle -- re: the most recent Motorhead album, which I proudly own, I got just one thing to say to you. And this goes for the rest of you, too.
Rock out! With yer cock out!
Long live Motorhead!
Rock out! With yer cock out!
Long live Motorhead!
11/23/09 @ 15:34
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