Who's Your Favorite Journeyman British Rock Producer?
By Oats on Jun 11, 2008
An exceedingly nerdy question to ask, yes, but a worthwhile one, nonetheless, I think. Let's consider some nominations, shall we?
CHRIS THOMAS
Beginnings: Famously served as George Martin's understudy during the White Album sessions.
Some Highlights: John Cale's Paris 1919; Roxy Music's second, third, and fifth albums; Mixed Dark Side of the Moon; Never Mind the Bollocks; First three Pretenders albums; INXS' commercial juggernaut Kick; Pulp's Different Class and This Is Hardcore.
WHAAA? Many interchangeable Elton John albums of the '80s and '90s.
JOHN LECKIE
Beginnings: Helped engineer Plastic Ono Band and All Things Must Pass. John Lennon nicknamed him "Licky," supposedly.
Some Highlights: Be-Bop Deluxe (That's for you, Mr. Mod.) Early XTC and Dukes of Stratosphere; Three Fall albums, which is more than most members of The Fall can manage (I'm kidding, Berlyant!); First Stone Roses album; Radiohead's The Bends.
WHAA? Los Lobos' Good Morning Aztlan
STEVE LILLYWHITE
Beginnings: Engineer somewhere. Does not appear to have learned at the feet of anyone Beatle-related.
Some Highlights: Peter Gabriel's third album; XTC's Drums and Wires and Black Sea; many U2 albums; Kirsty MacColl; The Pogues; the last Talking Heads album.
WHAA? Blamed for the big drum sound of the '80s, but what's really strange is his alliance with latter-day hippie jam types, particularly Dave Matthews Band.
18 comments
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
A few times I've tried to track down Chris Thomas and John Leckie for RTH interviews, like the one we did with Roger Bechirian. I'm most interested in Thomas' work because his productions are so transparent. I have no idea what Chris Thomas brings to a session, but he always gets a rock solid rhythm section on tape. For that reason, I prefer his work by a hair over Leckie's, whose greatest achievement may be that first Dukes ep.
Rather than Lillywhite, I'd love to talk to his engineer - and the actual brain behind the '80s BIG DRUM SOUND (developed by accident, I believe, on an XTC session) - Hugh Padgham, who would go onto produce English Settlement and unleash his creation to the dark side, on a bunch of Phil Collins/Peter Gabriel engineering jobs. I imagine Padgham drinking his life away these days, wealthier than he ever could have imagined but forever in shame for his creation.
The Dave Matthews Band work that Lillywhite's done, by the way, doesn't surprise me so much. Hasn't Jerry Harrison also produced his stuff? Despite not liking him, I've always thought Matthews shares some of the Prock leanings of XTC and Talking Heads. They jam a lot, but I think of them more as a band that likes to play intricately arranged pop songs than a band that cuts loose with true improvisation. Truth be told, I hope to never have to hear enough of their music to arrive at a definitive conclusion on that matter.
Rather than Lillywhite, I'd love to talk to his engineer - and the actual brain behind the '80s BIG DRUM SOUND (developed by accident, I believe, on an XTC session) - Hugh Padgham, who would go onto produce English Settlement and unleash his creation to the dark side, on a bunch of Phil Collins/Peter Gabriel engineering jobs. I imagine Padgham drinking his life away these days, wealthier than he ever could have imagined but forever in shame for his creation.
The Dave Matthews Band work that Lillywhite's done, by the way, doesn't surprise me so much. Hasn't Jerry Harrison also produced his stuff? Despite not liking him, I've always thought Matthews shares some of the Prock leanings of XTC and Talking Heads. They jam a lot, but I think of them more as a band that likes to play intricately arranged pop songs than a band that cuts loose with true improvisation. Truth be told, I hope to never have to hear enough of their music to arrive at a definitive conclusion on that matter.
06/11/08 @ 14:56
Comment from: Oats [Member]
Mr. Mod, do let me know if you manage to secure a Chris Thomas interview. (Have you tried Rough Trade Management?) I have some questions regarding Pulp's distribution of power in the recording studio.
06/11/08 @ 15:18
Comment from: sammymaudlin [Member]
Does Tony Visconti count? He's American born but an official ex-pat I think.
His contribution to the sound of T-Rex and Bowie was beyond essential and he's also worked with Stranglers, Boomtown Rats, Thin Lizzy, Adam Ant, Wings, Badfinger, Iggy, U2, Finn Bros...
He is thoroughly British to me.
His contribution to the sound of T-Rex and Bowie was beyond essential and he's also worked with Stranglers, Boomtown Rats, Thin Lizzy, Adam Ant, Wings, Badfinger, Iggy, U2, Finn Bros...
He is thoroughly British to me.
06/11/08 @ 15:23
Comment from: Oats [Member]
I thought of Visconti, but didn't mention him, because he's so readily identified with T. Rex and Bowie. He doesn't seem to have crossed genres and decades as notably as Thomas, Leckie and Lillywhite. But if he's your favorite (quasi)-British Journeyman Rock Producer, I'd tip my hat to that nomination.
06/11/08 @ 15:28
Comment from: cherguevara [Member] 
Big drum sound was actually discovered by accident on the recording of Peter Gabriel's "Intruder". The SSL console had a "listen" mic hooked up to it - hit the talkback, and it dims the board. So the "listen" mic kicks in when you hit talkback, so you can still hear people talking to you, when you're talking to them. Because the mic could be anywhere in the room, and they're trying to talk to you, it is heavily compressed. So they hit the talkback, heard the drum sound and said, "that's it!". They had the tech come in and wire the "listen" mic to a patchpoint and then they had their sound.
If you ever come across a digital reverb with a patch called "nonlinear" or "nonlin" (esp on the AMS RMX, not that any of us have one but maybe you do) that patch is designed after the acoustics of the room at Townhouse. Townhouse, btw, also recently joined the list of dear, departed studios lost to real estate dealings and declining business.
If you ever come across a digital reverb with a patch called "nonlinear" or "nonlin" (esp on the AMS RMX, not that any of us have one but maybe you do) that patch is designed after the acoustics of the room at Townhouse. Townhouse, btw, also recently joined the list of dear, departed studios lost to real estate dealings and declining business.
06/11/08 @ 16:07
Comment from: BigSteve [Member]
A few others to throw into the mix (some of these credits may be as engineer rather than producer):
Rhett Davies -- Eno (Taking Tiger Mountain and Another Green World), various Roxy Music and solo Roxy projects, Talking heads (More Songs, King Crimson (Discipline and Beat), Harold Budd, Robert Palmer, ect.
Martin Rushent -- T Rex, Yes, Buzzcocks, XTC, Stranglers, Ultravox, Human League, Pete Shelley
Hugh Jones -- Simple Minds, Bunnymen, Undertones (Positive Touch), Damned (Strawberries), Saints, James, Connells
Martin hannett -- OMD, Joy Division, New Order, Basement 5, Magazine, Happy Mondays, Kitchens of Distinction
Mutt Lange -- Graham Parker, Boomtown Rats, The Rumour, AC/DC, Def Leppard, Shania Twain
Vic Maile -- Kinks, Who (engineer on Live at Leeds), Brinsley Schwarz, Dr Feelgood, Eddie & the Hot Rods, Motorhead (Ace of Spades), 101'ers, Led Zeppelin, Hawkwind
Alan Moulder -- Gary Numan, Depeche Mode, Jesus & Mary Chain, Ride, MBV, NIN, Smashing Pumpkins, the Clean, Elastica, Blur, U2, Moby
John Porter -- the Clean, Smiths, Japan, Billy Bragg, Taj mahal, John lee Hooker, Elvis Costello, Ozzy Osbourne, R L Burnside, Los Lonely Boys
Rhett Davies -- Eno (Taking Tiger Mountain and Another Green World), various Roxy Music and solo Roxy projects, Talking heads (More Songs, King Crimson (Discipline and Beat), Harold Budd, Robert Palmer, ect.
Martin Rushent -- T Rex, Yes, Buzzcocks, XTC, Stranglers, Ultravox, Human League, Pete Shelley
Hugh Jones -- Simple Minds, Bunnymen, Undertones (Positive Touch), Damned (Strawberries), Saints, James, Connells
Martin hannett -- OMD, Joy Division, New Order, Basement 5, Magazine, Happy Mondays, Kitchens of Distinction
Mutt Lange -- Graham Parker, Boomtown Rats, The Rumour, AC/DC, Def Leppard, Shania Twain
Vic Maile -- Kinks, Who (engineer on Live at Leeds), Brinsley Schwarz, Dr Feelgood, Eddie & the Hot Rods, Motorhead (Ace of Spades), 101'ers, Led Zeppelin, Hawkwind
Alan Moulder -- Gary Numan, Depeche Mode, Jesus & Mary Chain, Ride, MBV, NIN, Smashing Pumpkins, the Clean, Elastica, Blur, U2, Moby
John Porter -- the Clean, Smiths, Japan, Billy Bragg, Taj mahal, John lee Hooker, Elvis Costello, Ozzy Osbourne, R L Burnside, Los Lonely Boys
06/11/08 @ 16:32
Comment from: andyr [Member]
Chris Thomas was my immediate thought too but how about that Mickie Most?
06/11/08 @ 16:34
Comment from: homefrontradio [Member]
cherguevara: It's SC-OTT, actually. :)
I love how timeless 'Hunky Dory' sounds - something that can't be said for a lot of Lillywhite productions.
I'm surprised there's no love here for Stephen Street. (Smiths, Morrissey, Lloyd Cole, Blur, Sleeper, Cranberries).
Anyone else here read Geoff Emerick's 'Here, There and Everywhere'? His opinion of Chris Thomas is pretty brutal, though George Harrison cops it worse.
I love how timeless 'Hunky Dory' sounds - something that can't be said for a lot of Lillywhite productions.
I'm surprised there's no love here for Stephen Street. (Smiths, Morrissey, Lloyd Cole, Blur, Sleeper, Cranberries).
Anyone else here read Geoff Emerick's 'Here, There and Everywhere'? His opinion of Chris Thomas is pretty brutal, though George Harrison cops it worse.
06/11/08 @ 17:17
Comment from: shawnkilroy [Member]
all these guys sound like masters to me.
i don't get the journeyman part.
i don't get the journeyman part.
06/11/08 @ 17:44
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
In hopes of answering Shawnkilroy's objection, I think by "journeyman" Oats was talking about the flexibility and lack of auteur status that at least Leckie and Thomas brought to their productions. It's the auteur part that made me wonder if Lillywhite belonged - and which, for me, would also eliminate Roy Thomas Baker, Stephen Street, Martin Hannett, and Mutt Lange, among the producers mentioned whose work I know best. Don't all Lillywhite productions get taken over by his sound? I think what marks a true "journeyman" producer is the ability to work with a broad spectrum of artists and simply help the artist sound more like each artist is meant to sound. Too bad Lou Reed never made an album with Chris Thomas. Now that might be the elusive album Lou's been looking to make!
06/12/08 @ 10:05
Comment from: Oats [Member]
Yep, Mr. Mod, that's exactly what I meant.
I think Stephen Street may count as a journeyman, but those others, yeah, not so much.
I's the auteur part that... would also eliminate Roy Thomas Baker, Stephen Street, Martin Hannett, and Mutt Lange...
I think Stephen Street may count as a journeyman, but those others, yeah, not so much.
06/12/08 @ 10:08
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
You know more about Street than I do, so I'll take your word for it. I guess he produces a lot of the Blur stuff that I like, but I'm not sure I like any other artists he produces. The Morrissey albums I've heard actually sound good (as much as I can't stand The Smiths, Morrissey on his own is easier for me to like in small doses). The only Lloyd Cole album I like is at least half-produced by Fred Maher and/or Matthew Sweet. I forget who does "side 2" of that one, which isn't bad either.
06/12/08 @ 10:24
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
Come to think of it, I've gotta add Nick Lowe and Roger Bechirian to this list...
06/12/08 @ 10:24
Comment from: Oats [Member]
Really, Mr. Mod? Is masterminding the awesome "Stiff Sound" journeyman enough? Elaborate, please.
06/12/08 @ 10:26
Comment from: Mr. Moderator [Member]
I know what you're saying about the "Stiff Sound," but their production/engineering work encompassed the carryover pub rockers, the proto-punk rockers (eg, The Damned), Costello, ska bands (eg, Bechirian's work with Costello on that first Specials album), the New Wave freaks and geeks (eg, Lene Lovich)...
06/12/08 @ 10:41
Comment from: shawnkilroy [Member]
yeah i thought ya meant like journeyman electrician.
06/12/08 @ 23:24
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