Jun 232008

I was out at a baseball game with fellow Townsman Mockcarr the other day, and, as the beer began to flow, we both decided that things at RTH had gotten a bit contentious. What we needed, we agreed, was to find common ground — you know, to find the things we know we can all agree with. We also realized, however, that attempting to find common ground on things we all liked was a fool’s errand. That’s what got us into all this trouble to begin with! A more likely path to peace and harmony, we thought, was finding unity and one-ness in the things we know we all hate.

Townsman Kilroy started things off rather nicely by citing the Rolling Stones’ output, post-Tattoo You. I’m going to suggest Dennis DeYoung. Is anybody here willing to stand up for either of these things and claim they’re not as bad as we think they are? If not, perhaps you’d be willing to help promote the healing by finding something else we can all agree to hate — utterly and completely — together.

Come on, RTH — can’t we all just get along?



  53 Responses to “RTH Loves What You Hate”

  1. Jimmy Buffett anyone?


    (I have tried to add link with the info in user guide, but I still can’t get it, sorry.)

  2. alexmagic

    Mounting an honest defense for DeYoung would be a true challenge. I don’t have that in me, though I tried my best in that post last year to understand his lonely place in Styx. It would be fantastic if a Styx fan would courageously step forward and defend him. I will say that my father, who is otherwise a fine person, used to really like one of the songs on DeYoung’s Desert Moon solo album. We try not to talk about this.

    I would encourage people to use this opportunity to refresh themselves with the “Undercover” video, as I was thinking about exploring it a little more after the Stones win their throw down with Rod.

    Looking to see if there actually is anything I like post-Tattoo You…man, “Rock and a Hard Place” and “One Hit (To The Body)” are kinda the same song, aren’t they? This was touched on in that Stones vs. 1980 clip a few weeks ago and the poll about them, but I’d like to see a closer examination of the symbolism on cover of Dirty Work. I think there’s a lot of hidden meaning contained in that photo.

  3. Mr. Moderator

    Mac, only administrators can post active links, if that’s what you were trying to do. When I see someone’s posted a link and I have a minute I go behind the scenes, in The Back Office, and activate it for you. Thanks.

    I can’t stand Jimmy Buffet, but something I find fascinating about him is his seeming acceptance to be a 2nd-rate hack who’s willing to target his work to weekend warriors who lost interest in The Power and Glory of Rock ‘n Roll years ago, if they ever were interested in the first place.

    I can’t stand anything related to Styx, and I have no interest in post-Tattoo You Stones, however, I have great interest in the “Undercover of the Night” video. That certainly merits a closer look!

  4. Dave Matthews and Natalie Merchant are tied for “public enemy #1”, as far as I’m concerned.

  5. BigSteve

    I won’t defend late period Stones as being as great as their earlier work, but come on it’s not Styx bad. That’s a ridiculous claim. I just put on Voodoo Lounge to check, and I’m right.

    Being disappointed because someone isn’t as great as they used to be is a completely different proposition than hating someone who’s always made your skin crawl.

  6. mockcarr

    I tried to stir up some Buffet hate a while back. Even if you can stand Margaritaville once in a while, is there any other listenable song he does? I got stuck someplace hearing Cheesburger in Paradise, and it’s awful. I’m pretty sure that’s his second most popular song. I mean, is there a Tofu in Perdition or Pasta in Pergagtory song to round out his Buffet table of dorkery? How is it that SO many people like this guy?

  7. Mr. Moderator

    Well said, BigSteve. I can’t believe HVB would be so contentious as to try to get us to agree on hating post-Tattoo You Stones! Aren’t we supposed to just get along?

  8. Mr. Moderator

    Buffet’s the Miller Lite of rock ‘n roll, isn’t he? Some folks just like keeping it Lite.

  9. Speaking of Miller Lite, somebody tell me why Steve Miller is worthy of note? I just don’t get it. Surely somebody will step to the plate on that one.

  10. 2000 Man

    Man, I have a feeling I’m gonna find out what the mat tastes like this week. Post Tattoo You Stones may not be as good as Pre Goat’s Head Soup Stones, but Undercover is a fine album, and one of the few major label albums of the 80’s with a good drum sound. Voodoo Lounge was pretty good and Stripped is pretty worthwhile, too.

    I wouldn’t hit a dog in the ass with Styx.

  11. Mr. Moderator

    Cherguevara, I think Steve Miller proved himself a great confectioner for a stretch in the ’70s: toe-tapping tunes with strong rhythm guitar and lyrics easy to sing along with if not care a whit about. Surely you’ll recall his recent induction into our Foyer of Fame, or whatever it’s called.

  12. hrrundivbakshi

    Has it really come to this — that the only thing we can agree on in the Halls of Rock is that Styx sucks?!

    Say it ain’t so! Somebody, think of another thing we can all hate together, as one.

    Lookin’ for some hateful healin’,


  13. Mr. Moderator

    I really hate Journey as much as I hate Styx, but I fear that someone likes them ironically, or will cite the power of Neil Schon’s Jewfo.

  14. BigSteve

    Milli Vanilli?

  15. the prophet

    It always felt to me that the Stones got greedy and arrogant. They became more of a corporation that needed to churn out pablum to keep the profits coming in. A lot of top acts started pumping out “hits” at the behest of the record industry hacks and they really suffered.

    In the spirit of getting along I’ll refrain from putting on my singlet and headgear to defend Steve Miller. He wrote some cool seventies rock songs. He’s no trend setter but he wrote a catchy melody. I would call them toe-tappin’. And who doesn’t like toe-tappin’ music?

  16. Styx sucks! I love you guys!

  17. the prophet

    Didn’t see your post Mr. Moderator. Glad that we can agree on Steve Miller Band. Your genius is showing!

  18. hrrundivbakshi

    Sorry, Mod. In addition to Schon’s almighty Izro, I gotta admit some love for at least 15 seconds of Journey’s combined career output — that is, about 15 seconds of that “naa, naa, na-naa-naa-na; na-naa-na-naa-naa-na; na-naa-na-naa-naa-na naa na-naa na-naa-naa…” outchorus from some crappy hit song of their. For bludgeoning my earbones with two solid minutes of that shit, they should be strung up, but I like about 15 seconds of it.

    Styx, I can find nothing to love in there. Like, at all. The purported ironic delights of Mr. Roboto are retarded — man, I can’t even get a rise out of the gigantically spandex’ed rhythm guitarist with the immaculate hairdo and beard!

  19. hrrundivbakshi

    Nah, I like the way Milli Vanilli dances.


    And don’t even *start* with Vanilla Ice! I can honestly say that I *much* prefer “Ice, Ice Baby” to “Under Pressure.” That was a solid hit!

    Rollin’, in my 5.0,


  20. What about Jefferson Airplane/Starship/Starship? That was some seriously downhill action. I think I saw Suzie Chapstick doing the giant slalom on their QC curve of their music.

  21. Mr. Moderator

    Nope, I like some of the first few Jefferson Starship songs, like “Miracles”. I hate you guys! 🙂

  22. Along with Styx and Journey (still for the life of me, I can’t enjoy them even for nostalgic/kitsch value), I toss Reo Spudwagon up there as someone I can find nothing to love about.

  23. hrrundivbakshi

    Shitwagon! Yes! I love you! They suck!

    I’m gonna keep onnn lovinnnn yooooou,


  24. Mr. Moderator

    Add Kansas to that Holy Trinity of Hate and we’ve got a Grand Slam of Bands with No Redeeming Qualities that I can sign onto.

  25. Oh and Wang Chung and Aha make me puke too

  26. “Dust in the Wind” scores it’s so bad I love it points with me, and I like a few of the riffs in “Carry On, My Wayward Son” or whatever that song is called.

    REO, however, can’t tune a fish as far as I’m concerned.

  27. BigSteve

    Liza Minelli? Gino Vanelli?

  28. hrrundivbakshi

    No way on Kansas, Mod. They ain’t great, but there are vast stretches of “Point of Know Return” (the song, that is) that kick HUGE 70s arena rock ass!

    And Townsman Petesecrutz, you are officially *off* Team Unity in Hatred. Wang Chung have at least one great finger-snapper in “Dance Hall Days.”

    Now, Survivor — there’s a band we should all be able to hate as one!

    Everybody Wang Chung tonight,


  29. hrrundivbakshi

    BigSteve, if you can convince me that Gino and Liza ever intended to rock, I’ll agree that I hate them. But I’m not sure they belong in this discussion.

    Carry on, my wayward son,


  30. Survivor brings back horrible memories (my punishment for failure to be moved on any level by “Dance Hall Days”). I had a short lived college roomate my freshman year who put “Eye of Tiger” on every morning as he got ready for classes. I am still scared as a result and no amount of treatment will ever help me recover.

  31. BigSteve

    Gino Vanelli certainly was played on the rock radio stations in the 70s.

    Liza Minelli made this record with the Pet Shop Boys:


    How about Michael Bolton?

  32. hrrundivbakshi

    How about it folks? Can anybody stop Survivor from helping us better love one another?

  33. hrrundivbakshi

    Yes! I love you, BigSteve! Bolton is now marching high-steppedly in the front of the RTH column, carrying his “I SUCK” banner!


  34. mockcarr

    I really hated that one Supertramp album I heard a lot of in 1982 on the radio.

  35. Mr. Moderator

    I’m splitting off with Petesecrutz. We seem to agree on stuff we hate. This guy’s good people. The rest of you, especially you Kansas sympathizers, suck!

  36. I haaaate Bolton (except for his threats towards Conan O’Brien which made for great comedy), but I’ll see your Bolton and raise you a Captain & Tenille.

    And also, are just looking at bands as a whole? Can we agree to hate certain members who gradually tarnish the name of a good band, or come in and ruin it?

    I loathe any Mike Love appearances these days. His rant at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction for the Beach Boys clinched it for me.

  37. hrrundivbakshi

    Sorry, Mac — the Good Captain and his luscious lady Tenille are responsible for “Love Will Keep Us Together,” which is undoubtedly one of the most toothsome slabs of 70s AM radio cheese ever. Can’t go there!

  38. Let’s see…Things/bands I hate: Styx for sure. I have no love for Mike Love.

    I have a funny Michael Bolton story that will only add to the Bolton hatred. I used to work part time at a local independent record store. A middle-aged white lady walked up to me and asked if I’d heard of Michael Dalton. I told her that I had not heard of Michael Dalton, but that I had heard of Michael BOLTON. She got very defiant and snapped back to me, “No. I’m looking for Michael DALTON. He WROTE “Sittin’ On The Dock Of The Bay.” I looked at at her and said, “No, ma’am. We don’t have any of his music. Thanks for shopping with us.”

    I tolerate Buffet, but I don’t own any of his records. I wouldn’t actually purchase anything of his, but I don’t turn the radio if “Margaritaville” comes on.

    I have to admit, I’m not a big Journey fan, but “Anyway You Want It” gets me. I’m sorry. I also like “Stone In Love.” Journey.

    There was a time that I thought I liked Kansas. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve discovered that I don’t like too much prog-rock. There’s some Yes stuff that’s okay. I like Peter Gabriel-era Genesis, but I like Gabriel better as a solo act. I respect the musicianship of those bands, but the music is so boring to me. Give me a sloppy three minute pop song any day to an 18 minute opus.

    REO is crap.

    The only music I find that I truly hate is new age music. I know that’s not technically “rock,” so I suppose that it doesn’t count. I put all that lite stuff like Vanelli into that bag. I have friends that like Enya. I can’t dig her.

    Styx seems to be the common ground.


  39. the prophet

    I love how we are bonding over our shared hatred. I remember booing Kansas off the stage when they opened for Cheap Trick in 1976. That was sweet. But whatever we do – let’s keep hatin’! Yeeehaah!

  40. Leo Sayer? Days of the New? Linkin Park? Incubus? Taco? Blues Traveler? The Cranberries (I dare you!), Creed? Nickelback? Geez, there are loads of crappy bands out there.

  41. 2000 Man

    I was in the second or third row when a bunch of ZZ Top fans booed Loverboy. We were really close to the stage, where the first row seats probably sucked because their knees were up against the barricade. Anyway, it was cool that Loverboy’s mic’s picked us up screaming for them to fuck off. It came through really well between songs. They looked pissed and gave us thie finger. God, they sucked.

    Other bands I truly, truly despise are The Eagles, REO Speedwagon (usually, they have one song I like and I don’t remember what it is) and Journey. I think Styx toured with REO a few years ago and someone that wanted to talk to me about music brought it up. They were going, and I don’t think I hid my contempt well.

    I’m going back to defending The Rolling Stones. That makes me happy.

  42. general slocum

    I’ll bring back the unavoidable turd of my senior year in high school, a scab I picked about 6 months back for the first time since 1979: Chuck Mangione. Journey, Styx, Foreigner, Kansas, all made this late seventies jazz trombone player think the Cramps represented the future of music. Yes, I hear the objections about Kansas, and while I agree with them, their negatives, from cover art to audience demographics, land them in the Record Bin of Despair.

    A friend who was playing some kind of seasonal-evil bass gig in Fla. some years back described a whole gaggle of Buffett weekend zombies. Middle aged fellas with hawaiian shirts who gathered their national fan club type group there. They were in his bar (Margaritaville, ain’t it?) and not only did his draconian wife not buy these slobs a round, she gave them a cease and desist order for using his little parrot or whatever logo item on their t-shirts, web site, what have you. The maestro was too busy upstairs working out his next opus to say hello *or* fuck you. Evil. Keep it lite *indeed.*

    George Michael, by the way, though never convincingly associated with the term “rock,” might still be brought up for Rock Sex Crimes, stemming from the times when his fictitious straight self got it on with hotter women than straight men usually are able to get near.

    Liza Minelli not only has morphed into some über nightmare many decades since, and has acquired a stun-factor almost equal to Michael Jackson, where those first few horrified moments when you’re trying to do the math on where the mouth and eyes are, and whether that’s a nose or an ear, and so forth, distract from any human identity this person may have had, with which to offend. In short, people in this category are less hatable, if only because they fire sets of synapses that are designed by nature never to fire at the same time. C’est freaque! However Liza Minelli needs a disapproval-embodying moniker. Like Guantanamo has only been referred to as Gitmo by the “legitimate” press since public opinion seems to have turned just so, or Jackson became “Jacko” once enough people stopped buying records and started tsk-tsk-ing. Of course there was a plunge into “Macca” for the “buried” Mop Top, which wore off when a huge chunk of change (but not *too* huge) was paid for all sins.

    Hey! Maybe Styx needs one of those. Some disdainful nickname. Though I guess just “Styx” works fine. Hm.

  43. 2000 Man, you should drop the moniker and pick up a newer, more accurate one: 1960s/70s Man Who Loves The Rolling Stones. Seriously. Come clean.

    I say this with admiration for your consistency.

  44. I knew there was still some deep seeded hatred I had buried in a dark forgotten place.

    Hootie and the Blow Fish.

    Or do they not count as a rock band anymore since going Vegas?

  45. hrrundivbakshi

    That’s a good one, Mac. Howaboutit, RTH — does anybody here like anything at all about Hootie and the Blowfish?

  46. H

  47. Coming in late but here’s a few thoughts:
    1. I’m unironically a-okay with Ridin’ the Storm Out by REO Speedwagon

    2. I can deal with the occasional Journey song (but only fairly recently)

    3. It’s tough to say something nice about Styx, but in 7th grade or so (1976) they had their place. They are a relic of the times but they served a purpose. In those innocent pre-Mr Roboto and pre-punk days, the quality of their music was less important than the fact that they were not disco. If I had a gun to my head, I might be able to make it through most of the song Blue Collar Man, but it would have to be a fairly big gun.

    4. Hating Hootie is a waste of energy. Their great sin is their non-offensiveness (which I admit is offensive in and of itself, but really, there are bigger fish to fry).

    4. Far more egregious for me is bands confoundingly who have some sort of “credibility” with some people, such as Natalie Merchant, Alanis Morissette, and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, as I’ve mentioned here before. Can’t we cast some united distain towards them?

  48. Mr. Moderator

    I like exactly ONE Natalie Merchant song, alhtough I do STRONGLY dislike her.

    I don’t like Alanis Morissette’s music, but I find her kind of attractive in a keeeraaaazzzyyyy chick kind of way, which I can’t say for Dennis DeYoung.

    I like a couple of RHCP songs, so, no, in all fairness I cannot join in on your disdain toward these artists. Damn!

  49. “I don’t like Alanis Morissette’s music, but I find her kind of attractive in a keeeraaaazzzyyyy chick kind of way, which I can’t say for Dennis DeYoung.”

    Oh she’s crazy alright… Crazy like a contrived and carefully test marketed fox.

  50. hrrundivbakshi

    Wassamatta you, CDM? You hate us or something? Just when we were finally starting to agree on something — that Styx sux — you gotta go and get all atavistic on us. I say thee nay! Styx do suck! No amount of 7th grade rose colored glass-dom will change that immutable fact. Styx sux!


    p.s.: Styx Sux!

  51. Mr. Moderator

    I, too, am sorely disappointed by CDM’s breaking our unifying consensus of hatred for Styx. Perhaps there is no hope for us to “just get along,” Hrrundi. The Hall thanks you for attempting to make history.

  52. I feel your pain as I am frequently disappointed in myself, too.

    Listen, I’m not denying Styx sucks. Even Mrs. DeYoung would have trouble saying that with a straight face. All I’m saying is there is a bit of misdirected energy here. There are worse things than being true to your own incredibly misguided vision. Alanis and all of the other purveyors of carefully calculated Epcott Rock are much more insidious in my book.

  53. hrrundivbakshi

    You know what I really wanted, Mod? I just wanted a measuring unit of badness we could all get with. I was *so* looking forward to being able to call people out with a simple, probing question, like:

    Can you tell me exactly how the Boomtown Rats are better than Styx?

    That question carries a *lot* more weight when we are all in agreement that Styx are truly, irredeemably bad.

    Oh, well. Consider this case closed. Sigh.


    p.s.: come to think of it, how exactly *are* the Boomtown Rats better than Styx?

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