Oct 272008
 

Can you think of instances when more-established musicians try to re-cast themselves along the lines of a younger artist? Neil Young pretending to be Devo for an album does not count. I’m thinking more along the lines of the 30-year-old Pub Rock veterans who changed their date of birth and recast themselves, in 1976, as Punks.

Do you believe in Rock Repentance?

If given the chance to create a new ad campaign for a revamped AMC Pacer, what band/song would you use?

Do you own more “bad” Stones or “bad” Dylan albums?

Name something musical from a time you lived through that’s now considered part of a current-day nostalgic perspective on the era that does not ring true to your memory and experiences.

If there is such a thing as Rock Repentance, how might any of the following artists repent for their Rock Sins?

  • Rod Stewart
  • Billy Idol
  • Ted Nugent

I look forward to your responses.

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  14 Responses to “Dugout Chatter”

  1. hrrundivbakshi

    More later, but the band I’d select for my 2009 AMC Pacer ad would be the Apples In Stereo. Definitely.

  2. Rock repentance is possible, but only by the creation of more good rock.Saying “I’m sorry all my albums now suck” is not repentance.

    I own more bad Dylan than Stones. The reason: bad Dylan albums are (usually, at least) trying to do something different that doesn’t work. Bad Stones albums are just bland, second rate rock and roll.

    On the run here, but I just wanted to chime in a bit.

  3. 2000 Man

    Can you think of instances when more-established musicians try to re-cast themselves along the lines of a younger artist?

    Sure, when rock went disco. Elton John and Rod Stewart were exceptionally awful. The Stones and Kinks a little better, But the Stones really “got” the punk thing more.

    Do you believe in Rock Repentance?

    Redemption maybe, but not repentance.

    If given the chance to create a new ad campaign for a revamped AMC Pacer, what band/song would you use?

    Molly’s Lips by The Cardigans. Some kind of Twee thing like that.

    Do you own more “bad” Stones or “bad” Dylan albums?

    Stones. I’d never buy a “bad” Dylan album. I don’t like him enough for that.

    Name something musical from a time you lived through that’s now considered part of a current-day nostalgic perspective on the era that does not ring true to your memory and experiences.

    The Ramones were not popular. They were not well loved and everyone hated The Sex Pistols, too. Now I hear The Ramones everywhere and see tons of over 40’s wearing those black Ramones T Shirts. I bet some those same people beat people up in 1977 for wearing those shirts.

    If there is such a thing as Rock Repentance, how might any of the following artists repent for their Rock Sins?
    Rod Stewart
    Billy Idol
    Ted Nugent

    Rod Stewart should have bowed out after A Night on the Town (or never got his stomach pumped, they’re both equally awful).

    Billy Idol seems to have gone away quietly enough.

    Ted Nugent should be real sporting and try to kill a rhinoceros with nothing but his loincloth. If he won’t accept the challenge from the Mighty Rhino, then he’s yellow.

  4. Mr. Moderator

    Good answers, 2K! Right on, especially, about the Ramones.

  5. BigSteve

    “Can you think of instances when more-established musicians try to re-cast themselves along the lines of a younger artist?”

    Remember in the early 80s when Pete Townshend got some kind of New Romantic hairdo? Being drunk is no excuse for having “Chinese eyes.” Linda Ronstadt also went ‘new wave’ on her Mad Love album with similarly unsatisfying results.

    “Do you believe in Rock Repentance?”

    Yes, I believed Little Richard every time he gave up rock & roll.

    “If given the chance to create a new ad campaign for a revamped AMC Pacer, what band/song would you use?”

    Something by American Music Club.

    Do you own more “bad” Stones or “bad” Dylan albums?

    I own pretty much complete sets by both artists, but Dylan has recorded more. You know me, I like even the bad Dylan albums.

    “Name something musical from a time you lived through that’s now considered part of a current-day nostalgic perspective on the era that does not ring true to your memory and experiences.”

    The current music nerd craze for 80s post-punk conveniently forgets how incredibly unpopular that music was at the time.

    “If there is such a thing as Rock Repentance, how might any of the following artists repent for their Rock Sins?

    * Rod Stewart
    * Billy Idol
    * Ted Nugent”

    Retire. Please. Permanently.

  6. alexmagic

    For the first question, this probably doesn’t fall under what you meant, but Robert Pollard always struck me as somebody who got really pissed off at hearing at some kids in a lousy band and decided he was going to go out and show them up.

    Rock Repentance: I guess it’s possible, but I go back to that Rock Brazil/Rock Argentina idea we kicked around here about Rock War Criminals who have to go on the lam and do time in Ringo’s All-Starr Band to atone for their transgressions. I always meant to follow up on that.

    More later, but the band I’d select for my 2009 AMC Pacer ad would be the Apples In Stereo. Definitely.

    Has anyone used their song “Go!” for a car ad? It almost seems like someone must have. I would go with Lennon’s “Nobody Loves You When You’re Down And Out” for my Pacer campaign.

    How would these Rock Sinners repent:

    Rod Stewart

    You know what? I don’t think he can. Somehow, I like Rod even less now after the Stewart/Stones showdown, because I was forced to accept that he was once better than I thought. Rod would need a time machine and an elaborate plan to change the ‘80s.

    Billy Idol

    I almost feel like he’s got nothing to atone for. There was just the right amount of campiness and weirdness in his career, and it’s not like he’s still hanging around.

    Ted Nugent

    Capture Bin Laden.

  7. i always thought Mick Jones was about 8 years older than the rest of The Clash, especially when i look at photos of him now. Also, in early Clash band photos, he’s rockin a mullet. I figure he was probably in a Badfinger type band from 70-75, then re-worked his look/ethos to keep on rockin into his 30’s

    There is no Rock Repentance. Only the hope that your worthwile material will one day outweigh things you did for the money.

    Something from Yo La Tengo’s Fakebook will sell 10 million new AMC Pacers

    I threw out all of my bad albums. There are only good ones in the collection now. I only own 2 Bob Dylan records. I have about 12 Stones albums. One of them is Emotional Rescue, which I’ll bet most of you hate so…
    Stones!

    The entire Pretty in Pink experience.
    The movie’s choice of clothes, music, and characterizations are so bizzare to me. Some weird post-new wave trip. Didn’t quite hit the mark.

    Rod could get with Rick Rubin and make a ballsy rock record for the new decade.

    Billy could make an album with some Gen X members, or any non Steve Stevens band, you know, no wailing guitars?

    in other words, they could use to get the fuck out of LA for a while, at least musically.

    as for the Nuge, he can go blow himself.

  8. mockcarr

    Can you think of instances when more-established musicians try to re-cast themselves along the lines of a younger artist? Neil Young pretending to be Devo for an album does not count. I’m thinking more along the lines of the 30-year-old Pub Rock veterans who changed their date of birth and recast themselves, in 1976, as Punks.

    I would guess that “Starship” would qualify, given how fair away from that rickety Jefferson Airplane they came to BUILD that city with their shiny 80s layers and de-hippified new band members.

    Do you believe in Rock Repentance?

    Sure, but only if it involves venial sins against Rock.

    If given the chance to create a new ad campaign for a revamped AMC Pacer, what band/song would you use?

    All I can think of is John Denver driving one for some reason, and no one wants to buy that. As wide as that thing looked maybe it should be marketed to lardasses with Leslie West’s Mississippi Queen.

    Do you own more “bad” Stones or “bad” Dylan albums?

    I have impeccable taste where these two are concerned. The worst album from the two I have is 12 x 5 by the Stones in my reckoning.

    Name something musical from a time you lived through that’s now considered part of a current-day nostalgic perspective on the era that does not ring true to your memory and experiences.

    What is current nostalgia, the days before downloads? Long playing albums had a lot of crap on them, kids. Equipment DID cost a lot of money, comparatively, none of this $40 Shuffle crap.

    If there is such a thing as Rock Repentance, how might any of the following artists repent for their Rock Sins?

    These guys can supress their own bad taste and dubious talents into a supporting role with someone WITH good taste and talent.

    Rod Stewart should become a haberdasher.

    Billy Idol should become a Las Vegas judge who grants divorces.

    Ted Nugent, well, there’s an exception to every rule. Maybe he can do a straight cover of XTC’s Melt The Guns.

  9. Mr. Moderator

    Starship is a good one, Mockcarr. Yes, that counts. I like the call on Pollard too, even if it’s stretching it a bit. Love the idea of Yo La Tengo doing a Pacer ad! Many good answers above! Keep ’em coming.

  10. general slocum

    Mr. Carr sez:
    As wide as that thing looked maybe it should be marketed to lardasses with Leslie West’s Mississippi Queen.

    I say:
    Heart video of Magic Man, back in the day, fade to image of Gremlin. Heart doing the same song now, acoustic (filmed from behind if possible) and then fade to the Pacer. Done and done.

  11. “Name something musical from a time you lived through that’s now considered part of a current-day nostalgic perspective on the era that does not ring true to your memory and experiences:”

    The whole recasting of Nirvana and Kurt Cobain as messianic figures.

    I feel I now know the exact measure by which death subsequently overrates an artist. This is something I wondered about when I was growing up in the 80’s and beginning to see cracks in the canon of rock (Hendrix, Janis Joplin etc. You may enjoy some of their music, as I do, but they were being sold as saintly figures and they just didn’t hold up).

    I was living in the Pacific Northwest when Nirvana was playing local shows and the only burning question anyone had about them was “Are they better or worse than Mudhoney?”. The next question was “When is this mopey shoegazing in lumberjack outfits going to end?”

    Nothing in rock puts lipstick on the pig more than leaving a beautiful corpse. Death is the best career move.

  12. Can you think of instances when more-established musicians try to re-cast themselves along the lines of a younger artist? Neil Young pretending to be Devo for an album does not count. I’m thinking more along the lines of the 30-year-old Pub Rock veterans who changed their date of birth and recast themselves, in 1976, as Punks.

    Aside from the examples of former pub rockers (i.e. The Vibrators, The Stranglers, Joe Strummer, et al.) turned punks you alluded to above, the one I can think of right off the bat is David Bowie styling himself as a ’90s industrial icon on his Outside album and touring with Nine Inch Nails around that time.

    Do you believe in Rock Repentance?

    Yes. I have a friend who thinks that if an artist has already made a great album, he/she/they have the ability to do it again.

    Do you own more “bad” Stones or “bad” Dylan albums?

    Neither. I own no Stones albums past Some Girls and the only ’80s Dylan album I have is Oh Mercy, which I actually really like. Nor do I have any of the “bad” early ’70s ones (I’ve never heard them).

    Name something musical from a time you lived through that’s now considered part of a current-day nostalgic perspective on the era that does not ring true to your memory and experiences.

    Anything related to this decade’s ’80s nostalgia qualifies in this regard.

    If there is such a thing as Rock Repentance, how might any of the following artists repent for their Rock Sins?

    * Rod Stewart
    * Billy Idol
    * Ted Nugent

    Rod should get back together with the living members of The Faces and do a Rubin-ized type album. Billy should do the same with Gen X. As for Ted, he can start by donating some of the cash he would normally use for gun purchases and send it to oh, I don’t know, just about Democrat locked in a tight Senate race right now like in NC, OR, NH, et al. 🙂

  13. Mr. Moderator

    Bowie’s NiN phase is EXACTLY the sort of thing I had in mind for that first question! Nice work, Berlyant.

  14. The new Rolling Stone has Elvis Costello interviewing Nick Jonas.

    I agree with the Pete Townshend “New Romantic” phase.

    Anyone who tried to add Drum and Bass to their sound in the late 1990s (Bowie and Oasis come to mind)

    Every old school act that claimed to like Beck so they would be considered current.

    I love the great English poet William Idol so he needs not to beg for salvation. I do need to find Generation X on CD or see if anything is at Amazon Mp3 store.

    Rod…1967-1972 he was the king, then the rest is so freakin’ bad. Every Picture Tells A Story may be my all time #1 record, but I never bought anything past Atlantic Crossing (OK the one with Duran Duran when I was in Hight School…with Lost In You and Dinomite)

    If Downtown Train or Young Turks are on the radio I will listen if Love Touch comes on I remind anyone within earshot that this is the worst song ever recorded by anyone…ever

    Ted – he has not done anything, times just changed. Saw him open for ZZ Top in 2003 and his show was the same as the show I saw in 1988 when he played with LA Guns.

Apr 272007
 

Don’t be shy. Surely you’ve got an answer.

What’s the happening album you’ve been spinning of late, old or new?

Are you or have you ever been into “hot rod music” – with all those rockabilly, hellcat, headlight, and pommade associations?

Can the exaggerated “vampire rock” of goth-related artists like Bauhaus and The Birthday Party (and other heavier Nick Cave projects, including this new Grinderman CD) be seen as an update of the hot rod ethos?

Opera excluded, have you ever been able to get into any foreign-language music and love it as much as something sung in English? I ask because I just downloaded a bunch of African guitar stuff that sounds really good and I know will be good background music for painting rooms and editing manuscripts, but as with other foreign-language albums I’ve bought over the years, I fear I’ll never get the added kick of being able to sing along with them. Some of the stuff is in French, so at least I can make out the gist of some couplets.

Perhaps you’ve got your own dugout chatter to stir. What’s the one question that hasn’t been asked yet?

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  49 Responses to “Dugout Chatter”

  1. hrrundivbakshi

    Never been much of a hellbilly/hot rod guy, with the exception of the fine, fine recorded output — and blow-your-fucking-head-off live work — of Hank Williams III.

    To the topic of foreign-language rock: I am at this moment in furious preparation of a post on one of my favorite non-English speaking rockers. Look for it later today or tomorrow.

  2. BigSteve

    David Byrne’s Brazil Classics releases on Luaka Bop made me love Brazilian music, especially the one called Beleza Tropical. Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil rule. At one time I even considered learning Portuguese so I could follow this music better, but I just don’t have the time to focus on that, and there are usually good translations in the CD booklets. Listening to music and not understanding the words is definitely a whole different thing. In this case Brazilian Portuguese is so beautiful and so musical on its own, it’s easy to get lost in it.

  3. BigSteve

    The African guitar stuff is great, no? I have Paul Simon to thank for that. The South African stuff is cool, and nowadays west Africa is where the action is, but what I really like is classic Congolese rumba. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8lQ8MqTCMI
    That’s Sam Mangwana singing lead, and the chunky guitar player and occasional vocalist in the backline is actually the leader of the band — the late, great Franco, my personal guitar hero. He called his band TPOK Jazz, so you can find a lot more on youtube just by searching ‘TPOK.’

    There’s an excellent African music blog — http://matsuli.blogspot.com/. The guy posts loads of free African music. If you scroll down to the April 8 post, there’s an excellent rumba collection called Ambiance! Ambiance! posted for download, but if you’re interested don’t delay, because he doesn’t leave the files up indefinitely.

  4. Bauhaus has nothing to do with that Rockabilly problem you just mentioned. The Birthday Party does a little bit but not The Bad Seeds.

    I love The Plugz, that East L.A. band from the early 80’s who are all over the Repo Man soundtrack, and some of the Robert Rodriguez flicks.

  5. The Plugs speak Espanol.
    SK

  6. saturnismine

    kilroy was right. keep bauhaus and rockabilly separate. are you drawing connections based on their common affections for greasy hair?

    either that, or go to central europe, germany in particular, where i think you’d find more overlap between -abilly movements, leather punk, and gloomandoom rock.

  7. Mr. Moderator

    BigSteve, I’ve got one of those first Byrne Brazillian comps and like it a lot, as much as I like any foreign-language music. I’m looking forward to delving into this West African, I believe, stuff I picked up.

    As for my question regarding rockabilly hellcats and Nick Cave’s heavier stuff, it’s not just the greased hair. That would be too obvious. Let me see if I can articulate what I’m thinking about:

    • Music centers around primal, sexual beats and content
    • Singer’s got a “badass,” confrontational take on the world, even sneers at Death
    • Heavy emphasis on backing band supporting lead singer with shouts of encouragement, etc (yes, I know this is fundamental to much rock ‘n roll, but there’s an especially heavy emphasis in “gang mentality” backing in these genres)
    • Major focus on small collection of symobls (eg, cars/wild women/Satan : skulls/wild women/Death)

    That kind of stuff.

  8. BigSteve

    SK wrote:

    I love The Plugz, that East L.A. band from the early 80’s who are all over the Repo Man soundtrack…

    I love the Plugz too, especially the title song off their Better Luck LP. Little known fact: main Plug Tito Larriva was on the first season of PeeWee’s Playhouse, though I can’t remember his character’s name.

  9. Careful, Mr. Mod. Remember when I dared suggest that there was a causal connection between the music of Cave and Joy Division, on one end, and The Doors on the other.;)

  10. saturnismine

    mod, your first three items next to the dots are not just shared between gloom and doom and a-billy movements, and with the last one, we’re back to “look” as the basis for your connection.

    again, i think in europe there are audiences that would see it your way, and perhaps some bands there that try to make these connections, as a result.

    then again, i could be missing something. rock history, like any history, aint linear and compartmentalized, though we always seem to see it that way looking back because that makes it easier to discuss….

  11. Mr. Moderator

    Oats, there’s not a connection between Cave and The Doors? I don’t really see it with Joy Division as much, and since I’m forgetting this old discussion, I can’t be helf accountable for any possible shifts in my opinion.

    Saturnismine, I disagree with your doubting of my speculation. I’m not sure I’m “right,” but I’m confident I may be onto something: Does the heavier side of goth-based artists serve the needs of the same sort of people who like hellbilly, that is, the needs of both the artists and fans alike?

  12. BigSteve

    What is hellbilly? You mean like The Cramps?

  13. The Plugz were Dylan’s backup band for one performance and for my money it was Dylan’s greatest performance ever I ever seen. It was his first time on Letterman in 1984. They did three songs: Don’t Start Me Talking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkW8yCvlMr0), Jokerman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIS7jFSe8n8), and License To Kill (which doesn’t appear to be on youtube currently). (You can also find rehearsals for this appearance on youtube.)

    This is perfect Dylan. Out to promote his new album and he starts with a song that’s not from the album. The performance is on the edge. Bob walks a tightrope thru the whole thing and forces the band to follow him out there on it. Outrageous vocals, the ultimate Dylan harmonica breaks (after he finds the right harmonica, leaving the band to vamp for awhile), and a young hungry band struggling to maintain balance and doing so by the narrowest margin.

    Even 1966 with the Hawks doesn’t match this for me.

  14. Mr. Moderator

    Re: Hellbilly

    I was just throwing out variations on silly subgenres at that point, Steve, but no only would The Cramps fit that description, they are a perfect example of the connection I see between hot rod music and vampire rock. So there, Saturnismine, Oats, Shawnkilroy, and the rest of you doubters:P

  15. Mr. Moderator

    Man, that version of “Jokerman” is pretty rockin’ for post-braindead Dylan. I’m listening/watching on small speakers in work, but with a some bottom end this is as close as Dylan would get to sounding like Mott the Hoople trying to sound like Dylan.

    Regarding the all-important Look issues:

    Bob’s got a nice wide-legged stance going. Impressive. Cool, too, how he avoids holstering his guitar before playing the harmonica, or at least trying to play it before the technical difficulties are hammered out.

    I like the way the little bassist (a guy with Philly roots and who played in an early ’80s band managed by two friends who refuse to enter the fray here but do seem to check in on occasion) displays his long bass. Always a good move!

    The drummer playes is safe for 1984. Cool.

    As much as I dislike the lead guitarist’s headband, it was thoughtful of him to deck out his guitar with a matching one.

  16. saturnismine

    mod,

    just saying your point over and over and then saying “so there” when somebody points out an example that works for you is much less effective than actually supporting your argument.

    i’m sure you can do it, so i really am interested in the answer to the question.

    how do the cramps have anything to do with a bauhaus aesthetic?

    also, you haven’t yet responded to my point that the common ground you cite after your first three dots are qualities that many forms of rock music share, and that your fourth point brings us back to issues of “look” (other than to say you disagree).

    you also haven’t responded to my points about Mark Fidrych.

    please man up.

  17. Mr. Moderator

    Sat,

    The Cramps…The Birthday Party (and -like side of solo Cave)… Let’s focus on these two, because Bauhaus brings more Briti Art Rock into the mix and then you’ll never be satisfied.

    1) If you can’t hear similarities in the slamming, out-of-tune, “Monster Mash” rockabilly/Johnny Cash in each band, I’m not sure you’re qualified to question me.

    2) Now that you understand that much, consider The Cramps’ use of “scary” imagery – not just in their Look but in their sound. , the way they sing. Both The Cramps and Nick Cave use affectations that I think come from the same impulses as those used by rockabilly cats.

    Now the two things I least want to do are 1) shoot down your questions with glib dismissals and 2) open the door to psychoanalyzing rockabilly and goth fans. Please consider what I’ve suggested, but do not think of this suggestion as anything I mean to “prove.”

  18. BigSteve

    I can see the connection between The Cramps and goth, a sort of horror movie deathtrip. What is eluding me is the connection between that and the original rockabillies. In the 50s cars were about escape (see Chuck Berry). Are there examples of the hot rod = death theme before Dead Man’s Curve?

    I don’t know much about goth rock, but weren’t they going for more of a dark ages or even pagan eurovibe? The hot rod to hell thing seems more American (like Rob Zombie).

  19. The connections between rockabilly, shoackabilly, the Cramps and the Birthday Party seem pretty obvious, don’t they? That can’t really be what’s being debated, can it?

    The Cramps really are more or less just an exaggerated version of a rockabilly band. The Birthday Party’s version of same is more distorted, but the basic primal urge is the same.

    Mark

  20. saturnismine

    well done, mod! and thank you.

    i do certainly recognize the “lone wolf howling at the blue moon through a plate reverb or slapback” aesthetic that they share, but i hear more divergences in their sounds. the cave set likes things slow and sparse much more than the ‘abilly family. and they’re much more open to technology…sounding “new” than their similarly greased nostalgic cohorts.

    and my pointing you in the direction of europe was not meant to be a put down. spending time over there has made me realize that on a culture-wide scale, they often draw different associations than we do.

    psychoanalyzing goth / rockabilly / psychobilly / punkabilly or whatever isn’t necessary.

    i thought perhaps you also saw some actual artistic exchange…overlap of personell in these acts, or maybe common producers, etc… those kinds of ties. maybe there are some.

    good on ya.

    now, about fidrych…..

  21. saturnismine

    oh…but mr. mod, don’t let’s forget:

    what DID prompt your initial mention of bauhaus if you’re so willing to put it aside in the interests of a more focused comparison?

    it’s okay if it was just “look”….

  22. Mr. Moderator

    BigSteve wrote:

    What is eluding me is the connection between that and the original rockabillies.

    Sorry, I did not mean to refer to the original rockabilly artists as much as I did hardcore fans and practitioners of the music since it rebirth, dating back to the early ’80s. To me, that’s “hot rod rock” – it incorporates a punk sensibility and added layer of self-consciousness.

  23. Mr. Moderator

    Saturnismine wrote:

    they’re [ie, “the cave set,” as you put it – Mod] much more open to technology…sounding “new” than their similarly greased nostalgic cohorts.

    Mmmm. Do you think this is why I suggested in the question that they might be “an update of the hot rod ethos”?

    As for why I mentioned Bauhaus…you know why. Must you nab me on one sloppy point when I’m bringing otherwise worthy insights to light?

  24. saturnismine

    well, to be fair, your initial statement was a comparison between bauhaus, nick cave, and hot rod music.

    i mean, thank GOD Big thought to mention the cramps, whose connections to rockabilly are manifest, and are rarely, if ever, grouped with cave.

    the “updating of the hot rod ethos” is, i think, the part of your argument i understand least. what’s “new” sounding in the cave stuff (gloominess, slower beats), doesn’t have much to do with the hot rod ethos.

    really, i’m just trying to understand where you were at initially with this…it seems like you’re supporting a different argument than the one you put forth…

  25. general slocum

    Let’s focus, for a moment, on the ubiquitous skulls/devils/evil imagery in tattoos, album art, &c. One of the clearest differences in “view” between goth and rockabilly is this. The rockabilly set, reflecting the relationship to all things sacriligeous so artfully explored by their rockabilly ancestors, wears the death-oriented imagery in the spirit of “die young, leave a pretty corpse.” They are flipping the bird at piousness, not worshipping the devil. There’s a big difference. The devil, as represented on their arm art, as often as not looks more like Bettie Paige than Mephistopheles. You will find no goat-heads, no upside-down crosses, no full-throttle evil. The difference between their devil and a mud-flap girl is so fine as to almost not exist. They, like their music, are often loud and boisterous. The redneck “whoop” is their motto. Now, the goth aesthetic, as regards things evil, is sombre to a point that could make the Hornéd One cut his wrists. Isolationist, mopey, and self-important out the wazoo, the goth weltschmerz is nauseating. They would not be caught un-dead on an actual motorcycle, since the wind, and chain hazard threaten the droop of their blacker than black hair, and their cereal-box-prize laden belts. They seem generally to prefer to believe their fellow catatonics are not present, and if there were an analogue to the “rebel yell” among them, it would be a fragment of a quote by Crowley, quoting Proust about death, or some such.

    Also, in my quest to download everything of interest from the public library, I listened yesterday to the latest album from Rasputina. Not standard goth, I realize, but from that corner of the world. Very much not of the rockabilly mindset, I feel. I might also add that both of these genres have some interest for me musically, but I could never in a million years get behind a movement with so much fussiness of appearance, and foppery of accoutrements. When we first started seeing people at the East Side Club wearing lots of dangly metal crosses, skulls, and the standard mope accassories, we were curious. As it became more of a “thing” we joined in. At our next Junior Mints show there, we all wore much Dark Bling. I had a belt with a crunch berries box, an air filter from Chris’ Malibu, some cooking utensils, whatever I could find. Our statement was missed every which way, most of all by the doom’n’gloom set, since they make it a point never to look up from the floor.

  26. Mr. Moderator

    Funny…all these great answers yet we’ve yet to have one new question that wasn’t already on my mind. Don’t hold that question any longer.

  27. When have opera or operatic approaches been used successfully within the rock context?

  28. BigSteve

    mwall asks:

    When have opera or operatic approaches been used successfully within the rock context?

    Luciano Pavarotti’s singing on the track Miss Sarajevo from the album by U2 side project Passengers.

  29. hrrundivbakshi

    Uh… Bohemian Rhapsody!

  30. One totally obvious song and one totally unknown one? Is that really the sum total of what’s out there?

    Hey Jim, I was just wondering whether this question was one that you’d already had on your mind.

  31. Mr. Moderator

    Believe it or not, this question had not crossed my mind. I sense there are a few more out there that have yet to cross.

  32. I’ll combine two of the questions. Like BigSteve, I’m really into that first Byrne Brazilian compilation. As a result, a pretty large portion of my music purchases of the last ten years or so have been Brazilian music. I still think that collection is the best, but a number of others especially the late 60’s Gosta, Gil and Veloso records really knock me out.

    And recently, I picked up a new Tom Ze record that General Slocum was raving about on here a few weeks back, “Estudando O Pagode”. Ze is probably the most avant of the Tropicalistas, and his records continue even today to be aggressively experimental. This new one is some sort of opera, with lots of singers taking parts. It’s also full of synthesizers playing edgy noisy parts that function almost like the scratching on a Public enemy track. The first song, “Ave Dor Maria” has a section which lays a female voice singing a Bach excerpt against an unrelenting funky little two bar riff. At first the melody and the riff intersect, but as the Bach moves through different chords the riff just sits underneath getting more an more out of synch harmonically. The day I got it, I kept playing this song over and over, eventually resorting toward skipping back mid-song to hear the section itself repeatedly.

    I’ve also been through phases with heavy African listening, particularly South African stuff. One record, The Soweto Compilation on Rough Trade was hyperbolically described at the greatest music ever made by human beings or some such nonsense in the NME when it came out, but I occasionally have thought the reviewer might’ve been right on that one. It’s very rough and rockin’, with a terrific overlay of recording distortion that makes it buzz in a very nice way. I’d snap it right up if it ever got out on CD.

  33. BigSteve

    Totally unknown? Miss Sarajevo was a top ten single in the UK.

  34. Mr. Moderator

    I know of “Miss Sarajevo” and I think I’ve heard it once, but I’ve never lived in the UK, or even been there.

  35. BigSteve

    Ok, here’s another question. What’s your favorite song about another musician? Like ‘Daft Punk is Playing at My House’ by LCD Soundsystem. This question was inspired by an article in the Guardian, but I was not impressed by their choices. I can think of at least two others that beat their list. What are your favorites? It can either be about the other musician or just refer to him/her/them prominently. Just don’t pick anything “totally unknown.”

  36. Mr. Moderator

    BiggSteve asked:

    Ok, here’s another question. What’s your favorite song about another musician?

    Great question. I’m going to go with the first one that came to mind, which is actually about multiple musicians, Arthur Conley’s “Sweet Soul Music”. I can’t get enough of that driving drum beat and Conley’s poor man’s Otis Redding delivery.

  37. hrrundivbakshi

    I think we addressed this “shout out” topic some time ago; my vote then, as now, is for “Alex Chilton” by the Replacements. That band, in general, hasn’t aged too well for me, but that song fully rocks, still. I just plain love it.

  38. “The Ballad of Sally” by the Mekons features Sally Timms doing a song about herself written by her bandmate, usually identifed as “Ken Lite”. It’s a very amusing song playing on her image as a sharp tongued assassin. It goes rather like this:

    The Ballad of Sally

    People say I’m frightening
    It’s only ‘cos I’m scared
    If I say something to hurt someone
    Then I’ll cry alone for days
    This is the ballad of my life and how I will sing
    La la la la la la la nothing nothing nothing
    I don’t care what people say
    Laughing up their sleeves
    When you’ve had enough of me
    I’ll be wise enough to leave
    It always seems so easy to overstep the mark
    Cruel and lazy, vacant and vicious
    Walking through Burgess Park
    I always have the last the last word
    But you can have the first
    It’s welling up inside me
    Until I’m fit to burst
    Down here in Berry Street
    Drinking Moscovskaya neat
    Kevin wrote this song for me
    Now I’m singing it for you
    This is the ballad of my life
    It’s downhill all the way
    La la la la la la la
    nothing more to say

  39. My current favorite in this category is Half Man Half Biscuit’s song about the Libertines, “Shit Arm, Bad Tattoo”:

    I could have put my head in a bucketful of porridge
    And moaned about the hospital parking scheme
    I would’ve saved 14 pounds
    That I just splashed out on your second album

    For that’s what it’s akin to
    And furthermore
    You’ve got a shit arm
    And that’s a bad tattoo

  40. general slocum

    Big Steve asked:
    Ok, here’s another question. What’s your favorite song about another musician?

    I thought:
    “Sweet Gene Vincent” by Ian Dury, and “When Harpo Played His Harp” by Jonathan Richman come to mind. And, of course, Sweet Home Alabama.

  41. All the Young Dudes (Bowie loves Queen, the Beatles and Stones, and T-Rex)
    You Better You Bet(The Who loves T-Rex)
    The Jean Geanie(Bowie loves Iggy)

  42. BigSteve

    Mr. Mod mentioned a multi-artist tribute song. (What makes Sweet Soul Music for me is those background vocals. “Yeah, yeah….”) A couple of others are Eric Burdon’s Monterrey and Roger McGuinn’s I’m So Restless (the one addressed to Mr. D Mr. J and Mr. L.).

    The songs I had in mind when I asked the question were John Cale’s Mr. Wilson and Van Morrison’s Jackie Wilson Said. When I put my mind to it, there were a few others I came up with:

    Bob Dylan – Song to Woody
    The Blasters – Long White Cadillac
    Jelly Roll Morton — I Thought I Heard Buddy Bolden Say (Buddy Bolden’s Blues)
    Miles Davis — He Loved Him Madly
    Elton John — Empty Garden
    Steely Dan – Mr. Parker’s Band
    Mojo Nixon — Don Henley Must Die
    Paul Simon — The Late Great Johnny Ace
    Bobby Bare — All American Boy

  43. No question – “Jackie Wilson Said”

  44. Hey Mr Mod (and Mike Fingeroff & Chickenfrank) – do you guys remember learning “Sweet Soul Music” and leaving it on the shelf after Madonna did a horrible version at the ’87 Grammy (or American music Awards)

    We had actually gotten it down tight but the moment passed.

  45. Hey Mr Mod (and Mike Fingeroff & Chickenfrank) – do you guys remember learning “Sweet Soul Music” and leaving it on the shelf after Madonna did a horrible version at the ’87 Grammy (or American music Awards)

    I remember it went deeper than that. We were toying with rewriting it with lyrics that offered local shout outs to bands with whom we played. Didn’t Madonna also steal our cover version of SWLABR?

  46. Mr. Moderator

    I forgot about “Jackie Wilson Said” – that’s a winner!

    I remember us covering “Sweet Soul Music” one time at City Gardens, while opening for Ben Vaughn. Did Madonna actually cover that song? I don’t recall that. I do remember us toying with the idea of shout-outs to Ben, The Milkmen, The Wishniaks, Electic Love Muffin, et al.

  47. The Barenaked Ladies had “Brian Wilson.” Does the fact that I don’t like it disqualify it?

    Oh by the way – a few Cajun/zydeco lyrics are cool enough that I haven’t been above learning them phonetically.

  48. sammymaudlin

    the Replacements. That band, in general, hasn’t aged too well for me

    I was just saying this to someone other day and I was a HUGE Replacements fan. I just rarely, if ever these days, want to play them and if I do it’s usually Sorry Ma.

    Maybe its because I over played them or maybe its because Westerberg’s eventual whiny little bitch routine has cast a unsurmountable shadow over his past efforts…

  49. Mr. Moderator

    Sammy wrote

    Maybe its because I over played them or maybe its because Westerberg’s eventual whiny little bitch routine has cast a unsurmountable shadow over his past efforts…

    Maybe it’s because you realized they sucked half the time and that even their best rock ‘n roll records were usually overshadowed by ’70s bands they were trying to emulate? Granted, if it’s not obvious, I was never a fan of more than a dozen songs, but I thought Sorry Ma… held up the best because it sounded like a young band doing all they could do to sound as good as they could – without really aspiring to any greater heights than bashing out some Faces-cum-Sex Pistols rock ‘n roll. After that, it was fist-pumping anthem followed by hardcore/heavy rock goof followed by cryin’ in Paul’s beer number followed by fist-pumping anthtem.

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